to think that picking a child up when a dog walks past is only going to reinforce that child's fear of dogs?

[wannaBe]

On way home from school this morning a woman and her child were coming towards me. As soon as the child saw the dog she started to wimper, she didn't scream, or become histerical, she opened her mouth and said she didn't want to pass the dog. Her mother picked her up, and proceeded to carry her, by now perfectly happy, until we passed, at which point she put her down again.

Now, I realize that some children are afraid of dogs for whatever reason. But the reality is that dogs are a part of life, and pandering too that fear to the enxtent that the child doesn't have to walk past the dog is surely not going to help? And is only going to reinforce the child's belief that all dogs are scary and to be feared.

If it was a bounding, snrrling, barking boisteress dog I could perhaps understand it, but it wasn't.

YANBU to think for most children it will end up causing more problems. But YABU as you don't know the scenario of the child.

The only time my dog has ever chased children is when they run away screaming in the park.

(what fun my dog thinks)

I call her off straight away and put her on the lead. The parents then so often can be heard to say something like 'oh I hate dogs' and are blantantly scared.

It's very unfair that the more scared you are the more dogs react.

My lad was terrifed of dogs for a short while after been bundled over in the park by a large pup when he was 2. I had to spend a few weeks going out of my way to let him meet dogs he didnt know (asking the owners first) before it got over it.

But some children be it because of sn or bad experiences with dogs will not be at a stage where they can be near a dog. If that was my child I would do my best to find ways to stop them being scared as dogs will be around for ever. But if it didnt work picking them up is a good option as many dogs would react to a scared child.

Most importantly if YOU are scared of dogs you need to sort it out, as your kids are much more likely to be scared if you are.

wannnaBe my dog never ever showed any agression to either a person or another animal, until she did.

Yeah she was provoked. The child tried to push her into the water because all the child's own dogs all loved swimming. That doesnt excuse her though, that turned her against children and we did not want to risk keeping her after that.

Some dogs dont mind children climbing on them and pulling their ears and other dogs cant bear having their ears touched at all. The last child they met might have found their "trigger" and it gets taken out on the next child they pass

there is a double unpredictablily when you combine dogs and children.

Wannabe of course it's relatively rare, but there is no way to know if THIS is the one that's going to bite your face off. If dogs gradually became more dangerous it would help, but even then with a strange dog you don't know if it's already nipped three people this week.

Also it's not just getting bitten. A lot of dogs won't bite, but will leap up playfully to lick a child and knock them down.

Since I'm bigger I'm less worried about being bitten or knocked down then getting slobbered over. I find that offensive.

I realise that your dog will do none of these things.

SBS

My dd was in a pushchair in the post office and a dog leapt up and actually sat down on dd in the push chair. The owner then came over and shouted, 'get down Trooper.' It has always amused me, but at the same time I think the woman was a bit of a loon to have a dog off a lead in a post office and that the dog should have been under control.

Dogs and small children don't really mix because dogs are pack animals that respect a pecking order. In your own home, you can make a dog know they are at the bottom, below the toddler. A dog in the street doesn't see a small child as the pack leader, and so children should be a bit wary. Herding dogs may be lovely, but a scared child flapping around may be seen by the dog as something to herd and nip at the ankles.

So yes, I think a dog doesn't see the dog/human division in the way a person does.

SBS - You do realise Wannbe has a guide dog - not a large snarling alsation style guard dog. This would mean they are about as safe an animal you can get.
Also I think if you are "a little scared of random dogs that I pass out and about", you will clearly pass that fear onto your child.
Which is exactly wannabe's point.

A lovely woman with a Dalmatian off it's lead the other day asked us if DS2 minded dogs before we got to them. That was nice - he doesn't mind them at all, but I do instinctively put myself between him and the dog. We've had a couple of dogs who have bounded up to up DS2 (21 mths) - with the owner trilling "oh, he won't hurt you, he's just being friendly"

If you cannot guarantee that your dog will not bound up to anyone then he shouldn't be off the lead imo. A dog that is well trained to walk to heel is the only kind that should be off the lead.

I agree that parents may transfer their fears to their children. But how can you not? It's the same as the other thing dog owners always say - "they can tell that you're scared and so then they are more likely to attack". Well yes but if you're scared then you're scared, you can't not be scared because someone tells you not to be.

I am scared of dogs BTW having had a run-in with an alsation when I was about 6 which I later found out was very dangerous dog which had bitten many people so I had a lucky escape. Also a dog bit me in a shop and the owner said "oh it's just a kiss-bite" despite the fact my leg had teeth marks and was bleeding. didn't say sorry.

So many things like that happen - like another person had a big dog which was jumping up on a small terrified child, the mother was asking the owner to please call it off, the owner was saying "don't worry she won't bite".

I personally think it is weirder to not be afraid of dogs than to be afriad, they are descended from wolves which humams are naturally scared of, they have big teeth and can cause a lot of damage or death, they could easily kill a small child, many have been bred to be aggressive and have owners who can't control them/use them deliberately to scare people.

And yet the people who are scared are the odd ones?

BTW I grit my teeth and say "nice doggy" to DD but by the same token if I manage to make her have no fear at all then the thought of her rushing up to rottweilers all happy and excited makes me feel sick...

YANBU. Even if the child did have a fear of dogs already, the mother should be reassuring the child, not freaking it out
I have a friend who is terrified of dogs but doesn't know why
But her only memories are of her mother grabbing her away from dogs, or telling her to climb up frames or slides to get away from them when she was in the park as a child
Absurd behaviour

plus there are plenty of people out there with dogs with a history of aggression that they refuse to discipline or put down.

There was a serious dog attack on a child near me and the owner (a grandparent of the child) refused to put the dog out as "it's part of the family" - hopefully they were forced to before it attacked again but the owner was certainly still bringing it out and about for a good while after the attack

i used to pick up my son. even just to stop him freaking out and running into the road.

he has a phobia about them. sorry and all that but unless you have a child with a phobia like this you wouldn't understnad.

I am not afraid of dogs. DS1 isn't afraid of dogs. DS2 is. He's getting better, but he is.

Why? Because he got knocked over and licked thoroughly by a few big dogs. The owners of which were always fucking saying 'he doesn't mean any harm'. Even when my child was screaming hysterically.

DS2 has got better because I always pick him up if he's getting worried, I always watch out for dogs and warn him about them. I also do my best to predict the behaviour of dogs - he's not too bothered about dogs on leashes anyway, I don't think he's afraid of guide dogs (we have one in our neighbourhood, but I don't remember running into the dog with DS2). But I will say 'oh, that dog doesn't look like he'll be interested in you at all' or 'that dog might be a bit friendly'.

DS2 hasn't realised dogs bite. But he is still terrified.

Wannabe
My neighbour's dog turned on me when I was about 8 or 9yo. He was a labrador and had started snapping at the neighbour's children shortly before. Until then he was the lovliest, most gentle pet. Noone knows why he became aggressive, it just happened. The vet mentioned that he might have a brain tumour, but that was just guessing.

I have a tiny scar on my nose, hardly noticable now.

I am not scared of dogs, never was and have recently bought a puppy.

but, wasabipeas, the mother didn't grab the child.

the child quietly asked to be picked up, and so the mother did.

as would i have done, as I explained earlier in the thread.

Since i have a dd who is scared of dogs, when i am walking my dog, i make sure she is under control. She si a cheeky blighter, who would, if allowed, run straight up to anyone passing and slobber lots (she's only being friendly, though )

I make sure she is either walking to heel if we pass someone, or, if I think she is not going to obey that (in the excitement of seeing someone new), i get her to sit by me until people have passed.

I was talking about this to dh the other day, and he pointed out that I might be instilling apprehension in the passers-by (our dog is a Rottie).

So, can't win that one really, can I?

If I let her be friendly, then people will be scared of the bounding dog.

If I keep her under control people might think there is a need for her to be kept under control...

TTTT, that's an awful experience for you to have gone through, and I agree there are plenty of unresponsible dog owners. But I think for the most part we are responsible.

I have 2 small dogs, and I dont allow my 18mth old to splash about in their water bowl, or lie in their dog bed (she is obsessed by it), because I dont want to have to deal with a situation where one of them growls or even attacks her.

I am trying to instill into my daughter that whilst the dogs are fun to play with, they are also not to be bothered and she has to "ask" to pet them, or any other dog.

She has to be above them in the pack.

Bertieboo, I also dont blindly trust EVERY stranger out there - I love swimming and water sport but have been raised with a healthy fear / respect for the ocean which I hope to pass on to my kids.

Animals are just that, I dont want my tots to think its safe to run up to every dog they see in the street for a cuddle

You can balance a healthy respect for traffic without an irrational fear of roads or cars

My youngest is afraid of dogs - not sure why as he previously used to like them. We pass lots of dogs on the riverside path between school and home and, although I try to ignore the fact that dogs are passing so as not to pander to ds3, he still always notices them and is nervous passing them. I don't have to pick him up, but he will always manoeuvre himself so that I am between him and the dog. If he was more frightened, to the point of hysteria, then yes I would pick him up. I think he will outgrow his fear because ds1 used to be much worse but now presumably manages to pass dogs without hiding behind someone.

TBH, from the perspective of a non-dog owner and non-dog lover, I frequently find myself wishing dog owners would control their pets more and not allow them to sniff my children. This is usually accompanied by the owners saying "it's ok, he is very friendly" which totally misses the point that neither I nor my children wish to be nuzzled (or bitten) by a dog.

I am not scared of dogs, but if my 2 yr got upset and started crying because he was about to pass a dog then i would pick him up

Thats is not transfering my fears onto him (i have no fear of dogs) it is called, trying to keep him calm, he is too young to understand his fears yet, if i forced him to walk past while he was upset i would be making him even more upset and his fears worse

MmeLindt, I have heard that too about dogs - as they get ill, cancers etc that they can suddenly turn. Its a sobering thought!

Thinking about it it's only dogs who aren't on a lead which bother me as they run up and jump on you etc.

if they are on a lead it's fine.

Why do people feel the need to take large dogs around the shops and around residential streets etc without a lead on? There is a dog around here which just belts up and down our road by itself. Just not on...

Sounds to me you're doing the right thing by getting her to walk to heel or sit by you - you've obviously got her very well trained in that respect. Could I just ask, please, that you don't let her bound up to anyone. That can be scary for an adult, never mind a child at Rottie jaw height

DD was scared of dogs for a while and I did not try to get her used to strange dogs, and if she had wanted picked up then I would probably have done so.

Taking the time to let her get to know our new neighbours' dog helped her get over her fear, not forcing her to cope with a dog that we did not know.

Our puppy is only 4mths old and still tiny but I have taken on board the comments on this thread and will be more careful when out and about with her. I tend to pick her up when I notice that a child is scared.

SBS, i agree with you - you definitely cant trust every dog or their owner, but to judge all of us with the bad experiences had by people is also slightly unfair.

I feel horribly judged because I have a toddler and 2 dogs. I would never put my DD in any danger and I certainly wouldn't want to frighten or upset anyone else's child. I would like to think the majority of dog owners are like me!

All of my 3 are terrified of dogs(I'm not neither is dp, he had one as a child).

I'm petrified of heights I would hate to be forced to confront that fear. In actual fact the times I've been in a situation that has needed me to face up to it hasn't helped with the fear it's actually only made it worse.

I think it would be very cruel to force a child to walk past a dog if they hate them. I would have reacted in exactly the same way as the mother in question. I know how frightened my dc actually get(ds has actually wet himself face to face with a dog). It's my job as a mother to protect my dc not force them to do something that would petrify them.

I'm a little curious as to how making a child walk past some random dog in a street would help them get over a fear of dogs anyway,surely access to a well known,predictable dog would be a far better bet anyway as the child would be in a far more relaxed situation.

Does it really matter if a child is scared of dogs? It's a bit inconvenient for me to take ds3 to a house with a dog as he is scared, but it's fine as he plays upstairs, moves away from the dog. I don't like dogs, so I don't really care. As long as he doesn't scream etc and start upsetting anyone with his behaviour, it's not an issue for me. After all, do we expect phobic/ scared adults top address all their fears or do we just accomodate them? Now I'm running and hiding from all the dog owners on mumsnet.

It would be nice if they were bertieboo, but unfortunately the majority around me are very inconsiderate (and not just about other people's personal space - hardly any of them poop-scoop either)