to think that picking a child up when a dog walks past is only going to reinforce that child's fear of dogs?

[wannaBe]

On way home from school this morning a woman and her child were coming towards me. As soon as the child saw the dog she started to wimper, she didn't scream, or become histerical, she opened her mouth and said she didn't want to pass the dog. Her mother picked her up, and proceeded to carry her, by now perfectly happy, until we passed, at which point she put her down again.

Now, I realize that some children are afraid of dogs for whatever reason. But the reality is that dogs are a part of life, and pandering too that fear to the enxtent that the child doesn't have to walk past the dog is surely not going to help? And is only going to reinforce the child's belief that all dogs are scary and to be feared.

If it was a bounding, snrrling, barking boisteress dog I could perhaps understand it, but it wasn't.

it's when the parent of a scared child glares at you as if you'd just unleashed Cerberus on them that nark me.
Kids do get fears, and i think calmly picking the girl up today and just getting on with it is not a bad way - it's the "Don't worry, it won't BITE you, or HURT you, or GET you" that reinforces the fear.
This am, DS was walking with me through the park with an oatcake. 2 massive golden labs surrounded (literally - they were massive) him and one swiped his oatcake. I was so proud of him (as he's so fearless with dogs), he just watched the dog chow down his oatcake and said "Good girl, woof woof".
He is fearless, but I'm always vigilant with unknown dogs, and he's very good with them, as he doesn't pull/maul/poke, as i've made it clear this is verboten.

I think YANBU. I think if a child walks past a dog in the street it is more than likely the dog won't bat an eye lid. I think it's unlikely that the dog is going to eat the child. Most dogs only respond in an aggressive mannor if provoked and if your dog is the kind that will eat children just by looking at, i would hope the owner would act accordingly when a child is approching.

i love great danes. they are bigger than shetland ponies. our neighbour has one and my DD thinks it's a horse!

onager sometimes it happens that a guide dog's training breaks down for whatever reason. Sometimes it can be because of an experience the dog has had (i.e. I know of a dog that became noise-shy after having a firework thrown at it and because of that the dog was too nervous to continue working), or it can be because of a behavior that develops which the owner has not dealt with (after all guide dog owners are essentially just dog owners and there are good and bad guide dog owners) and by the time the behavior becomes an issue it is too late and the dog is retired early. or the dog could make one mistake (they are after all only dogs).

I do wonder though re the dog that led the person out into the traffic, did the owner not hear the cars wizzing all around them? after all when I cross the road I don't stop and say, "ok, ready when you are," it is ultimately my decision when it is safe to cross the road, and the dog is trained that if I get it wrong and walk out in front of an oncoming car he will stop. In theory. Except that traffic training can often break down because traffic isn't something you can practice. I can stand on a curb and tell the dog to go when I know a car is coming because if he moves forward I can pull him back, but I can't walk out into the middle of the road in front of far traffic on the other side and pray to god that he stops. . So if the owner is aware of their environment, and concentrates on things like the traffic, traffic training is something which the dog hopefully never has to use. And so if you have a dog for say, five years and one day you get it wrong, I guess it's possible the dog could have forgotten and get it wrong also. People do get it wrong and get hit by cars, dogs are no less fallible.

I think once a child is able to talk (and they're at the stage when you're able to semi-reason/bribe them at home) it's perfectly possible to explain the difference between Guide Dogs and "normal" dogs.

It's not exactly rocket science to "spot the difference" or explain IMO, and young children are much cleverer that we often like to believe .

However, as others have pointed out that without the knowledge of the background of the child then it could be entirely feasible that they're being picked up because they're not able to be reasoned/explained to in the same way as NT children.

I don't have to pick up my DS if a dog approaches, he practically climbs up me!!!

As a child I was seriously terrified of dogs and cats. When people said "there's nothing to be scared of" or "he won't hurt you" it only made it worse. I then felt scared AND stupid.

ok so serious question...

Those who have children who are afraid of dogs, and I'm not talking boundy, jumpy dogs off lead in the park, I am talking those who have children who will not even walk past a dog on a lead, at what point do you address that fear? And again I am talking nt children not children with sn for who the fear is harder to reason with...

Because dogs are becoming a bigger part of our society.

Not only do we n now have guide dogs but we now have hearing dogs, and dogs for the disabled, and they are allowed everywhere, so you have no idea whether one might come into your child's nursery, or preschool, or the school playground, or classroom, and you might not even know about it beforehand and so would not be there to deal with it.

And the reality is that even ordinary pet dogs on leads are unable to suddenly jump out and eat your child, so surely it would be better to address the fear rather than pandering to it?

unlikely to eat your child even...

In my experience they grow out of it eventually so feel no need to push it.

I don't call comforting a terrified child pandering.

"pandering"?

Isn't it more about attending to the child's needs?

I would also agree that most grow out of it eventually or at least learn to cope.

surely it depends on why the child is afraid in the first place though?

If a child has had a bad experience with a dog, then of course the fear has some grounds. But if the child has just suddenly become afraid of dogs for no reason, then surely that is something that needs to be addressed before it reaches the histerical stage? And there are without a doubt parents who transfer their dislike of dogs on to their children and so are all too happy for them to be afraid of dogs, and that IMO is pandering yes.

Wannabe
I agree with your post about toddlers pulling dogs ears etc.
I take my dogs on the school run, and tie them up well off the path - they can certainly be avoided.
A few months ago, a little girl was stomping on my Greyhounds feet . She got told off by a parent who saw her, and has been quite ok with my dogs. I have had lots of "Yes, be gentle" conversations with her.

Anyhow, the other day another parent saw the same child with a few others - poking my dogs. A parent of one of the children was right there and did nothing . I approached her and said that perhaps the kids shouldn't be playing with a dog that is tied up, and the owner not there. She replied "ooh, they would never intentionally hurt a dog"

If my dog did snap, then no doubt she would have been howling for my dog to be put down

I don't think I can take my dogs anymore, as I worry for their safety.

BTW, There was also a parent who would yank her ds away when she saw my dogs. Her ds was straining to pet them (he was about9). That bugged me.

I would think it was more a distrust of dogs, not a dislike (although I can see that distrusting could lead to disliking).

Surely if a parent distrusts dogs and thinks they might pose a threat they might pass on this safety message (as they see it) to their children. Why is that pandering?

I don't know where you get this idea that anything other than forcing a child to walk past every single dog they meet is pandering to them and going to make the problem worse.

The parent knows the child's history, current mood, etc. etc. and you don't. They judged that picking up for that particular dog was the best thing. They may or may not do it for every dog. If they do do it for every dog, they may or may not be doing the same thing in three months time. You can't know any of that, so you can't possibly claim to know that they're doing the wrong thing.

Purpleduck of course a parent who didn't trust dogs would yank their child away.

Just as they would pull their child away from a river that the child wanted to jump into if they thought it unsafe.

Right, so some people are allowed to be afraid of dogs, and some are not.

It's exactly what I would have done. Don't see any reason to make a child more miserable than she already is. Children are right to be wary of dogs.

Since when are there phases of dog fear? Just because a child is afraid of dogs, it does not mean that they are going to become hysterical. If a child was afraid in school, the teacher would deal with it.

OP, I don't see that it is any of your business if someone else's child is afraid of dogs. The parent and the child that you mentioned did not ask you to change your behaviour in any way; a parent simply picked up a child who was afraid. That has caused you no inconvenience whatsoever.

I do not see why this is an issue. Why do we have to live in a world where everyone is really tough and has no fear of anything? There is no reason for anybody to engage with an animal that they have no responsibility for.

juuule but you can teach a child to have respect for dogs without teaching them to be afraid of them.

It's common sense that children should learn that you never walk up to a strange dog and stroke it without asking the owner first. It is common sense that you should not approach a dog that is tied up on its own because you don't know the dog and you don't know whether it is friendly.

But there is a vast leap between that and teaching them to assume that all dogs are savage pack animals just waiting to tear them limb from limb if they so much as look in their direction.

In the same way as there is a vast leap between teaching our children that not all strangers are nice people and telling them that they're all paedophiles.

Hear hear millyR

My dd is terrified of dogs. I don't know why. It is, of course, a pita. She is nearly 2. If she didn't want to walk past a dog, she bloody well wouldn't do it and I couldn't make her. I'd pick her up. I don't think a child should be forced to confront their fear every damn time they come across a dog.

i really have tried to teach my son that some dogs are friendly. he physically goes into panic if he sees any dog. some nice owners have tried to introduce him. it just doesn't work.

unfortunately the pit bull brigade don't make it any easier.

Yes, we did all that common sense stuff with our children.

However, one of our children was terrified of dogs after seeing her older sister bitten and another dog jumping up at her and startling her.

She is fine with our dog. She doesn't trust any other dog until she has grown accustomed to it and it to her.

Our children have great respect for dogs (and other animals). They also respect the fact that they are animals and should be wary of them particularly ones they don't know.