to think that picking a child up when a dog walks past is only going to reinforce that child's fear of dogs?

[wannaBe]

On way home from school this morning a woman and her child were coming towards me. As soon as the child saw the dog she started to wimper, she didn't scream, or become histerical, she opened her mouth and said she didn't want to pass the dog. Her mother picked her up, and proceeded to carry her, by now perfectly happy, until we passed, at which point she put her down again.

Now, I realize that some children are afraid of dogs for whatever reason. But the reality is that dogs are a part of life, and pandering too that fear to the enxtent that the child doesn't have to walk past the dog is surely not going to help? And is only going to reinforce the child's belief that all dogs are scary and to be feared.

If it was a bounding, snrrling, barking boisteress dog I could perhaps understand it, but it wasn't.

Err - your dog might be lovely, but iother dogs aren't always.

I tell my kids to hold my hand near dogs, and not to interact with them. I tell them the reasons for it too: most dogs are nice, but some dogs are grumpy, and some dogs don't know how to play gently.

Aha!

I knew it...

oh - and they're not remotely scared of dogs - and act great (sensibly and respectfully) around family dogs,

my DH would love it if we could get 2 cats to go with our 2 dogs. My house is mad enough as it is without adding to it.
My sister has 2 cats and my DD is obsessed with them

Kif, I think your advice to your children is very sensible and absolutely correct.

Love the idea of two cats to go with 2 dogs. Imagine them wearing clothes and going out in couples!

Like this

Sorry brain gone off at tangent....

I find this one quite difficult. On one hand, as a dog owner, I feel a bit sad at children who run away flapping and screaming as we approach from a distance with our two small-ish dogs on the lead. As someone else said earlier, that kind of sudden and unexplained behaviour is just the kind of thing that might scare a dog into snapping/ chasing (not mine of course ), and I hate to see a child so distressed by the sight of an animal that isn't anywhere near them, and restrained, especially when dogs are fairly common (in the country park)

On the other hand, I respect the fact that other people have evry right to walk without being approached by my dogs. To that end, I walk them well away from the town (we drive out to a country park every day, where the only other people you meet are fellow dog-walkers) The only problem is, that at weekends sometimes people other than dog walkers walk through the woods. My dogs are very friendly, and are, unfortunately, used to meeting fellow doggy people on their walks. My old boy is always on the lead anyway, and my bitch is generally pretty good at ignoring anyone who is unlikely to give her a biscuit, but sometimes people still flap, even as I call her to my side, and glare at me. I'm torn between not wanting to upset anyone, and not wanting to keep my dog on the lead through rough wooodland on the vague possibility that we might meet someone who doesn't like dogs. It's not an easy one.

My own kids come walking the dogs with me every day, and my 2 younger ones especially love dogs. DD1 is a bit more girly, and, afetr witnessing a friend being fearful of dogs, went through a phase of flapping/ screaming, which I had to deal with, as I can't afford for her to behave like that around dogs, given that we spend so much time with them, and meet so many every day. I explained to her that that was NOT an appropriate response to any dog, and why, and we agreed that she would in future stay beside me if she was frightened, and I would make sure the dog left her alone. She seems to be ok now, and I hope she continues to have no fear.

I DID get a little irked the other day, though, when a fellow dog-walker's dog knocked my dd2 (3.5) flat on her back in the mud, and didn't even apologise! (Luckily, dd2 was laughing) It also stuck its face in the buggy and started licking my ds, which my dogs are not allowed to do, so I understand why some people would think dog-owners are blind to their own dogs' faults!!

Is it really true that dogs can sense your fear?

I've had 3 bad experiences with dogs, a labrador, a border collie and an alsation.

On every ocassion they have been fine with other people and have only gone for me! Specially the alsation which let my kids pet it very friendly, and then pinned me up against the wall growling till my friend finally realised that my tears were not of laughter and that i was totally terrified.

She put it out in the garden and it sat there happily at the french doors till i glanced out and then it started barking and scratching to get in!

There is a park on the way home from taking the kids to school which is a short cut, but now i'm so worried that the dogs there will not be on leads, that i take the long way round

Luckily my kids havent picked up on this and are fine with dogs, but if i see a dog coming towards me without a lead, i cross the road and keep my head down.

Ashanti I am the same - cross the road if there is a dog not on a leash - and I wouldn't walk anywhere frequented by dog walkers without my DH.

People say they can tell you're afraid - but how that's supposed to help I'm really not sure...

Bertieboo, stop racking your brain. If you have a phobia as opposed to a dislike, slight fear, or minor aversion to something, you will know about it. It rules your life and dominates your every waking thought.

If i don't pick up my dd's in time they turn into hysterical sobbing heaps. I would rather pick them up till we are past a dog than the alternative.

Don'r see that it's any of your business anyway tbh.

Hi Dumbledore, i apologise for my remark, i was being flippant.
I realise that a phobia is not something that anyone takes lightly.

TTTT, it really doesnt help does it. Some people just dont understand that even if you have the most gentle, slobbering hound ever, to me its like seeing a tiger about to pounce.

The labrador that had a go at me, was the neighbours dog which had just recently gone mad, biting the owner and it didnt help that when this dog was snarling at me, he didnt approach the dog and just kept saying to me "keep still, dont move" I had my daughter above my head and couldnt move if i wanted to.

Finally he managed to call it over and it was then that i noticed that his arm was bandaged where the dog had bitten him. He had 2 small toddlers at the time. My oh was furious when he got home and went straight over to confront him. The owner was adamant that he wasnt going to be forced into getting rid of it, but a few weeks later, he gave it to Battersea dogs home.

He changed his mind a few days later and went to get it back, but it had been put down as it had attacked someone else.

Ashanti the alsation I had a bad experience with when I was about 6 (ie it was bigger than me) I later found out had bitten it's owner and she got gangrene and had to have part of her leg cut out, it has also bitten the postman, my dad and a couple of others. It was always out by itself on our road. I was really scared of it.

I think that if you have been bitten etc then you are scared of dogs - for me no matter how large or small or docile or even muzzled they just frighten me.

I don't think there's a lot you can do about it, I just wish that owners would be more sympathetic and remove their dog when it's frightening someone rather than leaving the dog to it as they think the person is just being silly...

TTTT i'm definately agree that it makes it so much worse when the owner practically laughs off your fear.

I have an irrational phobia of moths and spiders. I was once bf my daughter and a daddylonglegs flew in. I had my "flight or fight" moment, grabbed my daughter and ran for it. My oh went spare at me and told me that i had missed her head on the doorframe by inches. I know this is irrational, insects cant harm me but i am still scared.

Being afraid of a dog is a rational phobia imho because you are concious of the damage they can do. As i said, luckily i havent passed on this phobia to my kids and if they are around them and having fun, i have to keep swallowing and breathing whilst trying desperately not to grab them and make a run for it.

They are also not scared of insects! and it makes my phobia of them rather embarrasing at the nursery that i work at. I had a bunch of 3 yr olds tell me, "dont worry, butterflies cant hurt you miss!"

To me, butterflies are just moths wearing Versace!

"A guide dog in harness is probably safe since likely to be highly trained."

LOL - if other people have such qualified thoughts about the extremely high training of guide dogs then perhaps it isn't surprising that the woman took no chances!

Hope your dog is a bit more than 'likely' to have been trained, Wannabe!

Blu, there was a thread a while back where someone said it wasn't the dogs fault as it was ill/in pain. If you can promise me that guide dogs don't get sick I will remove the qualification.

And while we're at it what about the guide dog that injured two owners by leading them into traffic. I don't recall the details, but I think that was unexpected behaviour.

but onager, surely the fact that it made the news means its exceptionally unusual behaviour?

Can I ask wannabe - are you frightened of anything, do you have a fear of something however small?

Did having whatever you were frightened of thrust at you, did that help with the fear?

Soemtimes I think it may help but at other times it could well make things worse.

My dd was nearly biten by a dog, her father luckily was there between them, this made my eldest dd terrified of even hearing a dog. A lady at the football club spent hours very gently encouraging my dd and her own very lovely dog to come together at there her own pace, she worked over several weeks with my dd, it wasn't a fast process.

Now she has owned her own dog for 6 years, so the fear has definetly gone, but I would never have forced my dd to walk past a dog in the street had she been frightened, I would not have shown my dd either how much I really dont want to be around dogs. I would have crossed the road or picked my dd up.

Better to sort out a fear in a controlled enviroment and actually sort the fear and not risk making it worse.

This makes me think of the time when I was out on a day trip with my best friend and her mum, I guess I was 7 or 8 at the time. I saw what I thought was a lovely dog tied up and went to stroke it, the alsation guard dog that it was naturally barked at me like crazy and strained at the leash. My friends mum shouted at me for going up to a strange dog - out of shock perhaps - but to this day I am more scared of my friends mother than I am of dogs

"Some dogs dont mind children climbing on them and pulling their ears and other dogs cant bear having their ears touched at all." Children should learn from the earliest age that pulling a dog's ears and climbing on it and pulling its tail and its fur is not acceptable behavior. In the same way as we teach children that hitting and biting other children is wrong, so we should be teaching them that pulling the dog's ears and tail is wrong. Dogs are living beings and they deserve respect. If my child pulled a dog's ears or tail and was bitten I would say it served him right. And by bitten I'm talking about being snapped at not a full-on mauling, as there is a difference IMO.

It makes me very when i hear beople talking about how their dog is so soft that their toddler pulls his ears and his tail and sticks his fingers in its eyes etc. It's wrong.

There are bad dog owners out there. Dog owners who do not keep agressive dogs away from places where they might bite someone. But equally there are bad parents out there who allow their children to be cruel (and pulling ears/tails is cruel) to dogs who haven't done anything wrong.

wannaBe - whilst I think the mother in your OP was completely within her rights to pick her child up, and we don't know the background to the child's fear, you are absolutely right in saying that children should be taught to treat animals with respect. But to get children to respect animals, dog owners must also respect a child's personal space and not all do.

I think YABU. DD (19mo) likes dogs in theory (spends a lot of time barking, points at dogs from her buggy, can hear a dog a mile off) but in practice she is pretty unsure around them. She might go up to a dog, esp a small one but then if it came towards her she might freak. I've never been hysterical around dogs myself, so not sure where it comes from, she is the same with cats.

I would probably pick her up probably for one of two reasons, she might get upset or she might actually want to go and pet the dog and interfere with his work, and I wouldn't want to do that.

This thread just makes me laugh making me think about the knitting group I went to today. The owner has a great dane, he is massive! I've never seen one before! DD clung onto me whenever he was around (he was behind a gate, not that he couldn't jump - actually step over it if necessary. I just can't help laughing at this dog as he is huge, and lovely. But I don't think DD even recognises him as a dog he is so big!

Anyway, I'm waffling. OP YABU the mum is just doing what she thinks is right. Not everyone has to like dogs.