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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not have the faintest idea what all this Obama stuff is about??

224 replies

whoingodsnameami · 21/01/2009 10:36

Can you tell I dont watch the news?

OP posts:
kittywise · 21/01/2009 20:32

habbibu, no I haven't read that. Yes it does sound interesting. It does make complete sense to me that one might identify more with the dominant colour, especially having experienced prejudice because of colour.

BumpermightsuetheSindie · 21/01/2009 20:37

I think that for the moment semantics really isn't the issue here. BO is the first non white president of the USA that is what is important.

Blu · 21/01/2009 20:48

KW: people are not generally discussed in terms of a recipe: half a teaspoon of this, half of that....

Many, many people of dual parentage call themselves black (and, really, you know, they are brown...), they are a sgade of black, albeit a lighter shade than others. And, as such, subject tthe same level of racism. Racists don't appply racism in calibrated measures according to exact skin tone.

Of course he is the product of a mixed family background. You can be of mixed race, still 'black' (i.e brown) and still acknowledge your heritage as regards half your family in other ways.

I am white - I don't feel at all slighted or insulted that BO himself calls himself black. If as a white woman you have a child with a black man (DS is mixed race) you know that your child is probably going to have brown skin. Why anyone would run around after him going 'but hat about meeee, look, he's toned downbecause of meeeeeee, call him half white like meeeee', I don't know. Unless they were v insecure.

And it's VERY VERY important that he chooses to cal himself black as president precisely because of the 'one drop' rule that defined people as black and precluded so many generations of people who looked like him from equality.

wickedwitchofwestfield · 21/01/2009 20:53

KW - the usual ignorant replies from you I see

I think you just really get my back up with your comments sometimes+I'm allowing it to cloud my ability to retort in a reasonable and mature manner.

kittywise · 21/01/2009 21:20

ww, not ignorant just don't agree with you when you go off on one that's all. It would be nice to have a reasoned convo with you at some point.

Blu, yes you are right. I think it is important that he is seen to be black, but when it is talked about I have never heard his heritage mentioned and that is what pisses me off. It is as if one half of him is discounted because it suits people to do so.

wickedwitchofwestfield · 21/01/2009 21:35

KW - I just think I take things involving race/colour to heart as its something I am very passionate about, so when my beliefs are questioned or spoken ill of (at least, in a way I feel to be ill of) I see red and just turn into a bit of a mouthy one

the whole Obama thing is massive thing for me as a black woman - I've been 'speaking' to my grandfather a lot recently (he died when I was 6 - I miss him like hell and wish he was around to give me strength and guidance atm, I'm finding things quite hard) and he settled here from Barbados and I would have loved for him to see this day happen. Maybe thats why I indenify myself as black, the first person I looked up to was my Bajan grandfather, and also my white father, had a lot of black friends and himself was very influenced by their cultures and way of life so I suppose it is all I have known - to call myself black.

but I found it hard at secondary school, the black girls accused me of 'selling out' my black roots because I didn't immerse myself in black musical culture and as I look more white than black, I've found I get a fair bit of prejudice from other black people (such as in hairdressers or foodshops - seriously!) but in my eyes, I am black and will be to my dying day.

ok, I'll get off me soapbox now

Blu · 21/01/2009 22:34

KW - BO talks about his mother and his mother's family all the time. I don't get any sense that as an individua he is somehow playing dpwn or trying to occlude the fact that his mother was white.

But the fact is that once you are mixed race, you have darker skin. That's just a fact of the way the genetics around colouring works. Ergo, you look black...a shade of black (and anyway, a huge proportion of african americans of two black parents are also to some degree mixed race because of the rape of african women that went on during slavery, and then early mutual relationships), but black, not white. As you yourself said "many ignorant bigots will only have seen a man with darker skin. They will not wonder at how coloured it is, it is not white and that's all they need to know." Because dark skin is what you see. BUT why do you have to be an ignorant bigot to see someone not-white as black? I am fully aware that there are black people who are african by heritage and of the nationality of an African country. That there black people who are african caribbean, or african american, or mixed race. I know when I see a black person that they could be from a wide range of national and cultural backgrounds. And are all black. And that it isn't a BAD thing to identify someone as black.

Likewise, I don't think I'm an ignorant bigot for looking at white Spanish people and thinking 'white european' without always running through in my head 'but they have dark hair, and many Spanish people have Moorish blood, they might be a bit black...". And I don't beat myself up because I have denied the potential black part of their heritage, and insulted the Moors in doing so!

(I am white - totally and inarguably white...but my grandmother was a gypsy with spanish gypsy / Moorish roots)

Blu · 21/01/2009 22:35

WWW did you used to have a different name?

kittywise · 22/01/2009 06:50

WW thanks for such an interesting snippet into your life. I am sorry if I've offended you t any point, it was never my intention.

I can only relate to what you say through my dp (of course) and mixed race friends I have.

Dp says as a mixed race person one is often never accepted by any group. He is quite pale skinned as he hates the sun!

He looks more southern European in the winter, but it incenses him when people tell him he looks 'white' or they would never have guessed his parentage, as if that were a good thing. He is very passionate about being both Asian and white.

HecateQueenOfGhosts · 22/01/2009 07:41

I'm not surprised, tbh. There ARE, like it or not, many people out there whose world consists exclusively of what's around them. They don't know what's happening in the world, they don't vote, they don't know about global economics, they don't understand politics, the political system and its boss - big business. They don't understand why you can't just print more money instead of worrying that there isn't much in the country

They exist. They really, really do.

spokette · 22/01/2009 10:09

I have 4yo DTS and my DH is white. DT1 has brown skin with brown hair and brown eyes. DT2 has fair skin with fair hair and blue eyes. I have been asked a number of times by complete strangers if DT2 is mine , if the boys are really twins etc. One thing we noticed is that they are also treated differently by certain people with issues of colour and then when they find out that I am DT2's mother, he gets the same treatment as DT1.

Kittywise, unless you have lived and experience what it is to be black or mixed race in the Western world, you really don't know what you are talking about.

AlysGriffin · 22/01/2009 10:18

Kittywise, did you miss all the coverage during the election campaign of the death of Obama's white grandmother? He did something politically unprecedented when he suspended the campaign to go to Hawai'i for one last visit to her. He has spoken very publicly about what a crucial role she played in his upbringing. And there is, as someone says below, a great deal in his autobiography about his white family and what they mean to him - but he is always conscious that that heritage is not what people see when they look at him.

As someone else has suggested, you should read his autobiography, because all the answers to the questions in your original post on this thread are in it. And it has been a massive international bestseller, so many millions of people are aware of what Obama's mixed-race heritage means to him. Just not you. What you are lamenting is a problem born of your ignorance, not of other people's perceptions of Obama.

duchesse · 22/01/2009 10:39

The main point is now how black BO is, which is a complete red herring in my view, but that even 40 years ago, due to bigotry, there are places in America where Barack Obama would not have been allowed by law to sit down, yet now he is president. Even 40 years ago there were unpleasant signs up in Britain telling "blacks" they were not wanted. That is the sea change.

duchesse · 22/01/2009 10:40

not, not now!

lixylix · 22/01/2009 10:43

You must know something about him, you know his name and you asked the question.

duchesse · 22/01/2009 10:46

If the OP really wants to know what this means, here is an extract from the email sent by an American who actually left the country in disgust when Bush stole the election back in 2000, and now lives in Canada:

It never crossed my mind to go to Washington, actually. I'm not big on massive throngs of humanity congregating in subzero temperatures. However, it seemed as though the joy and kindness were unprecedented. Amazing togetherness and such a sense of awe in the presence of an historical moment. I can't believe this is happening in my lifetime. I never thought it would. I can't remember ever feeling this way. The anger and rage I felt over Bush stealing the election from Gore - and then reelecting Bush??? How stupid are the American people? But the other night I thought, if Gore had won, Obama wouldn't be here now. And somehow I felt a little bit better.

How are the Brits looking at it?

kittywise · 22/01/2009 10:47

alysgriffin, I would have replied to your post. However, your last line was unpleasant and nasty therefore I shan't bother to address your points.

kittywise · 22/01/2009 10:51

spokette, I don't have first hand experience but I have it in great detail from my dp as to how he has been treated because of his skin colour. I don't doubt it for a second, never have done.
Then again I have a MR friend who is quite dark skinned , she claims she has never come across any racism in her life which I also find hard to believe.

Perhaps it is all about semantics, I don't consider someone who is MR to be black. BUT I can see now that other people see this differently

spokette · 22/01/2009 10:52

I thought Alysgriffin last line was eloquently written and right on target.

AlysGriffin · 22/01/2009 10:59

It wasn't intended to be nasty kittywise. I didn't mean that you are an ignorant person in general, just that you are obviously unaware of the immense amount of media coverage that HAS been given to the white aspect of Obama's background. Apologies - no offence was intended.

wickedwitchofwestfield · 22/01/2009 11:33

KW - sorry if I went off on one there - but thank you very much for your apology, I think we've definitely turned a corner in our little MN bubble

of course you can only relate through your DP or other friends as I guess it is the only experience you have of it, just like my upbringing/heritage is my only frame of reference...

Blu - I've had a few names recently, did you have a particular name in mind

Rindercella · 22/01/2009 14:35

OP, YABU. There are certain things in this world that we should all be aware of - who the US President is is one of them, as well as the significance of why Obama is such a big deal. Go and check the 44th President of USA out - he is seriously hot!

I do feel it is a shame though that this thread has descended into a debate on how black Obama is. As usual, Blu, Spokette, et al, speak enormous sense.

claw3 · 22/01/2009 14:57

Do agree it would be hard to miss the Obama situation because of the publicity surrounding it, but should we be aware of the president/leader of each Country, China for example, about the same size as the USA?

Just out of interest how many people would know, off of the top of their head?

AlysGriffin · 23/01/2009 15:26

Interesting item about how people who identify themselves as being of mixed race are responding to Obama here

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