I don't think I am but here goes

[TheLadyEvenstar]

DS1 has opportunity to go on a school journey. I was in 2 minds about letting him go mainly because there is going to be 6 chalets each with 5 children in and 1 chalet with 4 members of staff in.

Now it comes out that the price which is £350 does not apply to the 3 sets of twins in the class they have to pay £350 for the 2 rather than £700.

DS1 really wants to go so i have said to him IF the twins are both going and only paying for one then I will be telling the school that I will pay half the price as what is good for 1 (or in this case 6 with it being 3 sets of twins) is good for all.

Am I being unreasonable to expect the price to be the same for all???

Can you find out somehow what the criteria is?

Willit DS1 is off school today and tomoz as we are ill, typical he only went back Tuesday, but when i take him in on Monday I am going to talk to the teacher. to see if i can find out.

Errrrr???? Her husband works???

So if she claiming to be a single parent to get benefits, because if her husband works over 16 hours there is NO WAY she should be in receipt of benefits unless she's claiming on grounds of disability.

Do you know what benefits she is on?

'It must have taken a lot of guts to do what you did ...'

What? To dob someone in on any anonymous website?

Well done, Evenstar. You got your revenge. I hope you can afford your ds's holiday now your dh is off benefits and back into work.

Techno, I am not sure what she claims I do know she get HB, CTC, and thats all, the reason i know is she asked me to help her fill the forms in (this was 5 years ago) and she still gets them as she said the other day...that her HB was mucked up and she ws on way to sort it out.

Desiderata was not about revenge, I don't have the time or energy for revenge. I doubt we will be able to afford it as he only started Monday and still has his training to get through.

You had the time and energy to report her anonymously.

It would seem that her twins will not be able to afford that holiday either now.

Alls well that ends well, eh?

Desiderata but she has already paid for their trip a whole £350 for 2 of them. Its people who genuinely need help that can't get it whose child won't be going, was talking to another mum a while ago who also brought this up with me and her dd can't go as she can't afford it and has asked school for help but she doesn't fit the bill either. And she is a single parent on benefits.

Yes, but because the school policy is that twins go BOGOF, you have decided to alert the authorities on her extra earnings, despite the fact that this lady is not responsible for school policy.

I'm sorry, evenstar. Maybe you're right to do what you have done. I must admit, in all my years on this planet, I have never heard of anyone who brags about their income, when the source of that income is dubious.

It is in the nature of the beast to keep quiet.

Either way, your actions certainly sound like sour grapes to me. This woman could be prosecuted, even imprisoned, because of the information you have offered up.

I hope you have considered that.

Reporting her is the right thing to do - not revenge. You'd report her if she'd stolen the petty cash tin or your credit card and was bragging about it wouldn't you?

It was me and other posters who pushed TLE to report her and by the sounds of it the mother of the twins can more than afford the holiday - twice over. I mean it's only 3 weeks school run money after all. Benefits and two or three lots of wages on the side? Nice work if you can get it.

I assume you don't have a problem with theft and dishonesty then Desiderata? Or are you just bothered that TLE has only reported her because she's got so pissed off and not before?

Techno Thankyou, I am pissed off about it and I think rightly so too. My DP has worked since he was 16 yrs old and only ever been out of work since he was made redundant, and we had no choice but to go on benefits for a while. As a result we cannot afford for ds1 to go on this trip but this woman could afford it as you said but reaps the benefits of being a "poor" mum....

How anyone can get outraged over someone else's financial circumstances in this way is beyond me.

Whatever she's done, do her children deserve to be left without a mother when she's sent to prison?

And we don't hear all this self- righteousness about the money this country loses due to tax dodges.

Or are you only bothered about the small-time fraudsters in front of your face?

No probs TLE. You've got every right to be pissed off. I know there have been a lot of posts saying that twins are expensive blah de blah (and yes they are, my friend has triplets and she is dreading this scenario when they start school and want to go on trips and join clubs three times over etc etc) but the crux of the matter is that this woman seems to have dishonestly obtained financial assistance from the school that she isn't entitled to. Now if the school just has a blanket rule than twins are only ever charged the fee for one child then that is wrong in my opinion. Just because you've got twins or triplets doesn't automatically mean you must be skint and need help.

Although my friend and her DH have triplets they aren't skint by any stretch of the imagination and can easily afford to pay for each child. They might not like it, they didn't choose to have three in one go, but they can afford it.

Any financial assistance should be on a needs basis and if it's not operating in that way - you mention other twins who have been given the same deal but who are not apparently on a 'very low income' - then the school should really address this. Could you perhaps raise through the PTA or School Governors as a general matter rather than pointing a finger at anyone?

And as for benefits - I've claimed, my OH has claimed as have many of my friends over the years. But like you, only when we needed to, didn't fiddle and it's a long time ago now. It was a short term safety net and not a lifestyle choice, and a safety net is only what the welfare state is intended to be.

OP - your argument has changed over the history of this thread. At first you were taking issue with the policy of the school to give a 2 for 1 discount to the parents of twins ( whatever their financial position). It has now morphed into an issue with one particular parent who you suspect to be fraudulently claiming benefits.

They are two different issues.

If you have a problem with the school policy, why dont you speak with the school about it, and explain your problem. Most schools have a contingency for subsidising trips for students whose parents are unable to pay full wack - but they wont know unless you tell them.

Informing the DOWP of another parent being a possible benefit fraud will not solve the problem for you.

"Whatever she's done, do her children deserve to be left without a mother when she's sent to prison?"

So are you saying that female criminals should never be sent to prison if they've got kids? Don't talk crap. If a woman burgled your house, mugged you and stole your handbag, assaulted you in the street or knocked your child down while driving under the influence you'd want to see her banged up regardless of how many kids she has. Why does stealing thousands of pounds of tax payers's money make a woman with kids less worthy of being properly punished?? She doesn't sound drug addicted and desperate, she sounds greedy and that she's got a decent family life and is just taking the piss.

And yes, I get even more seriously pissed off about people doing the fat cat tax dodges. Don't even start me on that one.
But the matter under discussion here is benefit fraud and mention of tax dodges is irrelevant. Fraud is fraud and 1000 small time fraudsters might only equal one or two fat cats but it still costs us taxpayers and HM Treasury an absolute fucking fortune. How many doctors, nurses or teachers do you think it would pay for exactly and would you be happy for the gov to just leave them alone 'because they've got kids, bless'?? Think about that next time your taxes and NI conts go up. You're paying for her lifestyle too.

Techno - the original post was nothing to do with benefit fraud.
This thread has gone off on a tangent.

I know the original post was nothing to do with benefit fraud but the tangent is very relevant - it was to do with a mother of twins being charged only once for a school trip that her two children were going on. The majority opinion seems to be that the school is probably funding the second place because the family is on a 'very low income' - despite her bragging that she is getting a BOGOF while she is getting benefits and working. Sounds like fraud to me.

What became apparent is that the mother of the said twins is fiddling the benefit system and is earning far more than the OP and other families who are paying full price. The OP is quite right to feel pissed off that this woman might be getting financial assistance from the school based on the fact that she's on benefits dishonestly. It happens, my son's school had a similar policy, which is all well and good if those in receipt of the financial assistance actually deserve it. I wouldn't have begrudged the parents of my son's mates who are twins only paying one set of costs if they'd been on benefits legitimately. But they weren't, they both worked full time and they paid the full fee for both boys - and yes I do know because they use to joke about it, how they'd get them back when they would both have to pay for the nursing home. Both boys are at Uni now and I dread to think how much it must be costing them, it's bad enough for one.

As I said in my last post, if the school's position is that parents of twins, triplets and other multiple birth families get financial assistance for school trips regardless of need then that needs looking at again by the school. Just because you had more than one baby at the same time doesn't mean that you are in need and need finacial help. It should be about the ability to pay - full stop. A two parent family with one child in receipt of IS or JSA could be far more in need than a single parent family with twins where the resident parent is in full time work. The way it seems to be arranged, according to the OP, just doesn't seem equitable or defensible which is why I suggested she raise it with the PTA or Governors.

Totally agree Techno. And threads rarely stay focused on the OP. Conversations would be a great deal briefer if they did!

I can't believe anyone would have a qualm about reporting benefit fraud, or any other sort of crime, especially if you can d it anonymously. It is highly unlikely that the woman in question would get a prison sentence in any case, and to be honest if she did it would be entirely her own fault.

Katch,

The parent in question gives me cause to be pissed off, my ds1 cannot go on the trip as DP was made redundant, his redundancy went on furnishing and paying for our home, (we had to move as our other place was far too small) so we have struggled for the last few months. This woman openly brags in the school playground about her income and her benefits and yet still manages to get assistance from the school because she has twins. If and it is a massive IF she goes to prison then that is her own fault.

Techno, the school only ever charges one of each set of twin for any trip even day trips. This is another reason I am so miffed about it.

I understand that having twins can be expensive, but I have 2 ds's and ok there are 9 yrs between them, BUT it doesn't make it any cheaper when they need clothing, feeding etc. The cost of food and clothing is the same whether i am buying for 2 ds's 9 years apart or whether someone else is paying for 2 dc who are twins.

I did report her she is committing a crime and it is wrong. I would do the same again especially if someone, like she does, stood bragging in the same way.

surely it would be better long term to speak to the school re their trip pricing policy and get this sorted out.

Personally I do not have a problem with reporting cheats, its only cause not enough people report them that they feel they can get away with it and brag about it.

I would speak to the school again re some assitance with this trip, maybe you just spoke to the wrong person and should speak to the head?

LES, don't worry about other people so much. You may think it is unfair, but lots of things are unfair. If you can't afford for your child to go, then that's sad, but that's how it is. Don't feel so bitter that a policy lets others go.

Most schools have a similar policy on families with twins. Seems very sensible, reasonable and accommodating to me - and I am not the mother of twins. The school will have a dedicated pot of money for such children, along with a fund doubtless for those in dire need of financial assistance. Seems like you have yourself a school with a caring leadership. This will all be part of school policy and will be publically available, and your complaining is unlikely to have them change it...largely because it has become standard practise and the majority are in favour of such schemes.

If you feel that you too should qualify for some assistance then of course follow up with the school, but don't muddy the waters with a 'they've got assistance, therefore I should have' arguement. I have to be honest, redundancy (esp these days) is rarely reason alone to qualify for what are always very limited funds.

As for the (alleged) benefit fraud...stay out of it. Playground gossip, whether from the horse's mouth or not, is rarely worth repeating. Whilst I am not advocating everyone keep quiet if they know something's really wrong, seems to me that your reporting on heresay alone...and whether the case or not, it does sound a lot like sour grapes...

Well said, flirty.

our pre-school had a policy of BOGOF for twins which they have now stopped. One of the reasons is that it didn't extend to families that had 2 children at the pre-school at the same time. Also the cost to the pre-school is the same whether they are siblings or twins, 2 places costs the pre-school 2 places IYSWIM.

We did consider looking at offering reduced fees for families in financial need but we quickly came to the conclusion that there is no fair way to assess income precisely because sometimes those in benefits actually have more "spare" income after "essential" housing costs than those that don't receive benefits. This applies particularly where we live because of the extortionate cost of housing whether it be mortgaged or private rental.