to believe that teacher's children should be treated in the same way as other pupils

[MillyR]

At my children's primary school, there are a number of teachers working in the school who have children who are pupils in the school and sometimes even in their class. I believe that unless it is essential (because you live on a remote Scottish island), you should not teach your own child as it is unprofessional and almost impossible not to show a preference for your own child and the children that they get on with.

I work 10-7, so I do the morning drop off by public transport. I then stand outside school with my children, sometimes in very unpleasant weather. The children who come on school transport are also stood outside unsupervised. The teacher's children can be clearly seen playing in the classrooms.

Recently, I arranged to go in and speak to a teacher about my child after school, which I then had to take time off work to do. During this meeting, her children were in the classroom. There have also been times when one of teachers has walked past me with her daughters, the older daughter's best friend, and they have all gone in to play in the classroom while the rest of the children had to stay outside. They are also often in the staff room or using other school facilities that are out of bounds to other pupils.

There is out of school club available in a building nearby. My children go to it after school. I think the teacher's children should also have to go to it or wait outside like everyone else.

If a teacher wants to part of her work at home and supervise her kids there, then I am not going to moan about that. But I think it creates a bad atmosphere and sense of unfairness for pupils to be treated differently because their Mum is a teacher.

There is also a huge amount of repeating of confidential information because the teachers tell their friends things, but their friends are the mums from school!

AIBU or is this common?

Mumof2dc - I feel the same. Especially the guilt thing about taking time off if children are sick, or if you want time off that isn't in the holidays.
Mine aren't at school yet, but when they are I can see it's going to be really difficult for me to be involved in their school life, because my school pretty much takes over my whole life in term time.

"It must be pretty bad to have such sour grapes for so many of your colleagues."

If that was directed at my post, they are not my "colleagues", firstly as I am not the OP. Secondly, as I pointed out, I no longer have any colleagues as I can't afford to actually work any more, other than the odd day to stay in favour with my employers until the time in which my circumstances change.

The sour grapes are for the lucky people - any people - who are allowed to take their children to work with them and who therefore don't have to pay for childcare. I may have the same sour grapes for people who are beautiful or who have won the lottery.

Personally, I have never been so lucky, and cannot afford to go back to work.

There may well be other SAHM parents shivering in the OP's playground who would have been able to go back to work had they been able to get their children looked after for nothing from 7.30 am while they worked.

Not that I want to take anything away from the teachers and their children. As I said, lucky them. But life sometimes feels unfair. Which I think was the OP's point.

They are not getting their DC looked after for nothing while they work-they are looking after themselves -in their own time. There own time just happens to be in the school building because it is easier to do it there than at home.

sorry their-I'm getting tired.

"If I had ever taught in the same school as my children, I would undoubtedly have done the same, allowing them into school before the official start of the day. My choice to get to school early, my choice to have my kids in there. Apart from anything else, the school cannot take responsibility for other people's kids outside core hours."

Bumped into our head today and mentioned a heated debate recently that I had been involved in (not naming MN) about whether or not children of teachers would be allowed in classrooms before school.

She said (and this is more or less a direct quote) "Oh we would never allow that. Children of teachers do not receive any special favours. They do not get fee reductions and they have to go to before/after school clubs like any other child. Anything else would simply not be acceptable."

Just thought you would be interested in this perspective.

If I taught in my DC's school I would still send them to breakfast club and after school club simply because they would have a better time.

Am a secondary teacher though, so unlikely to be an issue.

Perhaps one of the things that will resolve all of this is the arrival of extended schools. The Sheffield building formerly known as a school (what have they renamed it? centre for learning or something?) has been justified on the grounds that it is more welcoming; parents can come in, everyone is welcome, baby and toddler clubs and so on. It is not just a 'school'.

Once schools are looked at as more in the ownership of the community, there might be somewhere indoors for early arrivers supervised by their parents to stand, or reduced out of school club fee if your child is only using it after the bus arrives, or any number of other options. It then wouldn't matter if teacher's children were inside, because schools would be genuinely there for the benefit of all, and feel more like part of the community and some parents might feel less wary of school.

My dc's headteacher looked blankly at me when I mentioned extended schools - childcare for me is incredibly hard to find. I have one choice of cm for dc which is problematic when illness affects her or her family. But as the head so kindly pointed out to me, that's the price I pay for choosing a profession

(I'm also a teacher, thankfully working at more enlightened place of work)

Our after school club is run by parents, not the school.

Quattro it is quite rare not to get discounted fees.

I'm surprised about the fee reductions Quatro, as that is not I think unusual. I do agree on the rest though. Just not helpful for attempting to make sure that children who have the misfortune to attend the same school as their parent have the same experience as their peers.

Re the hours etc and child friendliness of teaching I think that it depends on what you compare it with as a career. It is unusual in my line of work (NHS management) for people to work 9-5. Many many people do an extra two or three hours per night, and evening and weekend work is not unusual. We are trying to stamp this out, because evidence is that working over long hours is unproductive, and leads to stress and illness. Most families I know with two working parents drop their children off at nursery or a childminders before their commute, so before 8am, and get back at about 7ish. Most of them worry about letting down their colleagues or clients if they are ill, and do so as little as possible. They all struggle with finding nice things that are not exorbitantly expensive for their children to do in the holidays. They all struggle to manage school dates such as plays, parents days etc. I think being a working parents with primary age children is just hard, and a juggle which doesn't always work.

My mother was a teacher, and my BIL, dh and various other friends and family have also taught at one time or another. As with all jobs it can be managed more or less efficiently. By the time my mother had retired she didn't need to spend much time on lesson planning, as she had so many prepared, and you can minimise how long tasks take, should you wish to (although you may feel it compromises quality). Certainly I always thought that both my parents worked very hard, my father 9-7ish or so, my mother with a break after school and then marking later. I do however know that having all of every holiday available to spend with us compensated massively, as she had 10 weeks more than my father. I still aspired more to my father's career and lifestyle.

Heated, our school has an on site out of school club but it is expensive and they changed it this year to a flat rate. So it used to be that I could wait with the children in the club for half an hour and it would cost 3.50 per child. Now it doesn't matter if a child is there from 7.30 or 8.30, the cost is £12 per child. It is just too expensive as it is £15 per child for the evening out of school club, which they both go to each night.

But I am going to feel lucky that we have out of school club! every school in our area has one on site or nearby (within walking distance). I hadn't realised provision was so patchy. Is there some deadline by which point schools have to have become extended? Although they will still be called schools I suppose, apart from the one in Sheffield!

Piscesmoon, I am sorry for the emotional tone of my post - I was tired and emotional in every way (due to a separate issue entirely) and totally over-reacted on this thread.

However, the pedant in me cannot let your comment: "They are not getting their DC looked after for nothing while they work-they are looking after themselves -in their own time." go unchallenged.

If your comment is true, teachers would truly only be being paid for their classroom time, ie 5 hours a day and not all in the holidays. But of course they are not paid only for that time, they are paid for some (and I agree that this is shamefully not all) of the time needed to prepare lessons and perform other administrative and pastoral tasks.

We all know that when people claim teachers "only work from 9-3 and have 13 weeks' holiday a year" that it's rubbish. But what you said is virtually the same as comments like that.

Teachers DO have to work non-classroom hours. And if they have their children with them during this time then they are taking their children to work.

I should have been more sympathetic though & said that if they are lucky enough to be allowed their DCs in the classroom with them out of school hours then they should do it discreetly, otherwise other parents could become annoyed. Which is what seems to have happened.

I was talking from my perspective. When my DCs started school I started doing supply in their school. There were no after school clubs and with supply work you might get a morning phone call saying 'please come now'-cms don't work on that basis. I did it in their school because I took them with me. Supply teachers fill in a time sheet, they get paid for exactly what they teach, therefore they are not paid for any time they choose to work before school.
Now that I work at a part time job I try to get there at 7.30 at the very latest, I am one of the earliest in, it is my choice and I don't see why I couldn't have my DCs with me (as it happens we are long past that stage). The deputy Head lives about 12 miles away, she brings her 10 yr old with her because it is much easier to have her with her, than at her local school. The 2 reception teachers both started in the way that I did and now bring 10 yr olds with them. These children are no problem, they either play on the computer or help. Once everyone starts to arrive (legally the school is not responsible for them before 10 minutes before the start of school)they go into the playground.
I can't see why those who moan don't understand that the teacher who is in early, is very organised and committed to doing their very best for the class, therefore it is petty in the extreme to say that they should have different childcare arrangements or come in later. My DSs didn't see it as any kind of 'perk'- they hated it! I didn't teach any of them often but I have taught all three at some point.

Thanks piscesmoon, I do agree with what you say.

But I also agree with the OP that there is something not quite right/fair about the children of the teachers at her school:

being present in the classroom while a meeting is being held about a child - which ought to be confidential surely?
being able to invite particular friends in to play with them in the classroom while everyone else stays outside
being allowed in the staff room
being allowed in other areas which are out of bounds to other children

The second one does imply that these children have "special privileges" Gaah, I am not sure I have spelt privileges right but it's the best I can do.

A private school that doesn't give fee reductions to the children of teaching staff, quatt?! Extremely unusual. And I'd've thought many would also get a reduction at the breakfast/after-school club.

However, I don't think anyone can deny that the teacher mentioned in the op does sound a little odd and (re teaching her own) and unfair (allowing friends of her dc to go into school) and it is hugely annoying when people are faced with this unfairness. MillyR does have a point on several of her issues.

But putting it all into persepctive very very few state teachers have their kids at the same school. A far more significant number of working parents have no childcare costs because granny looks after the dc. Do people feel angry towards them too?

Oh and BTW at the school where I worked sometimes if there was an inset day at one of the teacher's children's schools, they would bring their child in and they would stay in the staff room all day.

Presumably it was permitted. More than one staff member did it.

I was at this. Apart from the confidentiality aspect, poor kids!

"A far more significant number of working parents have no childcare costs because granny looks after the dc. Do people feel angry towards them too?"

Of course not.

This thread is about a teacher's children , who are pupils at her place of work being treated differently from other pupils at her place of work.

I know, balloon, but at times it has turned into a 'resenting people who get free childcare' thread.

Yes and I think I was a prime offender but I was a bit pissed and have apologised .

That's why I have come back to it this morning with a clear head to try to say what I really meant to say last night .

I post without reading all teh other posts - sorry balloon

I agree entirely BalloonSlayer with all your points about what a teacher's DC should not do. I would also say that OP school (and one teacher in particular)seem to have a very odd set up!
In the normal way of things it is petty to resent it-I doubt whether a lot of parents are even aware of it happening.

Pointy and Twinset, actually teachers not getting fee reductions is quite widespread now - and I think that trend feels as though it is on the increase, although of course I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support this.

I think schools who are part of the GDST for example do not offer reductions in fees to staff.

I don't think DD's school offers a fee reduction to staff either. Whether it is something that can be negotiated as part of the salary package, I dont know.

Gosh last year when I was planning my big move I was offered 2 posts int he indeoendent sector and had interviews for 2 others and they offered reduced fees as part of the package.