to believe that teacher's children should be treated in the same way as other pupils

[MillyR]

At my children's primary school, there are a number of teachers working in the school who have children who are pupils in the school and sometimes even in their class. I believe that unless it is essential (because you live on a remote Scottish island), you should not teach your own child as it is unprofessional and almost impossible not to show a preference for your own child and the children that they get on with.

I work 10-7, so I do the morning drop off by public transport. I then stand outside school with my children, sometimes in very unpleasant weather. The children who come on school transport are also stood outside unsupervised. The teacher's children can be clearly seen playing in the classrooms.

Recently, I arranged to go in and speak to a teacher about my child after school, which I then had to take time off work to do. During this meeting, her children were in the classroom. There have also been times when one of teachers has walked past me with her daughters, the older daughter's best friend, and they have all gone in to play in the classroom while the rest of the children had to stay outside. They are also often in the staff room or using other school facilities that are out of bounds to other pupils.

There is out of school club available in a building nearby. My children go to it after school. I think the teacher's children should also have to go to it or wait outside like everyone else.

If a teacher wants to part of her work at home and supervise her kids there, then I am not going to moan about that. But I think it creates a bad atmosphere and sense of unfairness for pupils to be treated differently because their Mum is a teacher.

There is also a huge amount of repeating of confidential information because the teachers tell their friends things, but their friends are the mums from school!

AIBU or is this common?

Sorry! My rant over, I have spent years with my mother telling me how easy my job is and saying," What do you do when the children go home". I guess it feels like a sensitive issue!

I would think it is a sensitive issue for all teachers-I can't believe that anyone would even think it a topic worth a moan! TAs don't get in as early as teachers, but very often their DCs are in school before the start of the day. I think all these children would prefer to roll up with everyone else-I would be surprised if any of them think 'how fantastic I am going to have to amuse myself for an hour before school and at least an hour after school!!

SOme of your points are fair enough.

Teacher's kids in class before and after school - I don't really see a problem with this if the children are old enough to busy themselves quietly.

However, the children should not be present if any sort of meeting is going on. You should say quite firmly that you do not want the children being present. It's not on.

Teacher's dc's friends - should not be allowed in to building.

Staffroom - teacher's kids should not be allowed

Teacher teaches own children - best not to (from child's point of view more than anything. Children normally hate this) but doesn't make much odds to the class as a whole

I know a teacher who used a childminder before and after school until her eldest was about 9 because then he was sensible enough to sit quietly while she worked. I don't see how anyone could be annoyed by that.

One of ds's classmates is the child of a teacher (of a different class). When ds went to this child's house for a playdate, they had to wait in her classroom for a while - apparently played on the computers. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Repeating confidential information about families is a whole other issue. OP should be complaining to the head.

It depends a lot on the workplace. Dh ha sbeen able to take teh dds in to work with him occasionally because they are old enough to sit quietly at a computer and play/work/read and they are out of sight of the customers.

There is no compelling reason not to have your older dc in teh classroom while you plan etc, so why not?

Well how do you explain to your child that she has to wait outside in the cold while the teacher's kids are inside? Where's the equality in that?
Either let the other kids in, or take the teacher's kids out with the rest.
The head clearly knows it and is avoiding the issue imo.
YANBU!

"Because X is with his Mummy and she works at the school." Sooner they discover the world doesn't always work in their favour the better IMO.

Your DC shouldn't be out in the cold for long before school. No DC should be at school until 10 minutes before the start unless you are standing with them and supervising them, the school is not responsible. A teacher's DC wouldn't be able to go out until it is the 10 mins before the start. I find they generally go out at that point.

We have a couple of teachers with children at the same school and dont experience with same sort of things as OP. If the teachers have work to do the children either do some work or play quietly(usually outside) often their parents get them to do little tasks (sharpening pencils etc) but equally there are plenty of non related pupils who are selected to do these "jobs" if they want to. In fact we have a couple of girls who are rarely outside because they always ask for jobs to do. (not saying I agree with this but its what happens!)

Breaking confidences: this needs to be brought up with the head. But you need to know that the information is coming from the source you suspect.

I work in school and my children play outside with everyone else and would be mortified if I suggested they did anything else.

It's very unprofessional for any children to be in the room while a meeting is going on.

Most of the other points seem reasonable to me. A teacher is contracted to work certain hours but will almost always work much longer hours in reality, so if they choose to come in earlier or stay later then that's up to them. eg I had a teacher colleage who used to come in at 8 and stay til 6 and would have her kids in the classroom with her. Seeing as she could have waltzed in at 8.45 and disappeared at 3.30 if she'd wanted to, I fail to see how it is 'unprofessional' to actually work much longer hours on site.

Sounds to me like the OP is jealous!

I can't believe the pettiness of this thread!!

You are lucky enough to have conscientious teachers who do far and away beyond their contracted hours and you want to make life difficult for them by insisting that they can't have their DC with them (when they are not teaching and are in their own time)-because it isn't fair-words fail me!!!

The obvious answer is for the teacher to walz in 10 mins before school starts and walz out 10 minutes after school finishes-is that really what you want for your DC?!

There are far more important things to worry about in life.
I would be frankly amazed if the DC was in a meeting or heard anything confidential. If anyone was unprofessional enough to do that, that would be the time to complain-with just cause.

Yes I do think I have a personal issue, a kind of phobia maybe of the school that means I am more bothered about this than I should be. I should just put my kids in the out of school club in the morning, so that they don't have to stand outside, and avoid the school, so that I don't have to deal with my fear of it.

But I do think there is still an issue to do with professionalism. Professionals do not have a clock/in clock out attitude and consider stuff outside of basic core hours to still be part of their role and think the other work they do is unpaid or optional. They see it as part of the professional role that they are paid to complete in their entirety.

I think it goes back to the equality at work act; women will not do as well as men at work if they have a clock in and out attitude, don't accept that you work longer hours than the minimum on their contract because most professionals just do, and don't bring their childcare issues/role as a parent into work with them (which some women do, not just some teachers).

It probably doesn't influence the promotion of that teacher, but it does reinforce the stereotype that teaching is women's work; it is something mum's do because the holidays are long, the hours are the same as the kids so they don't need childcare, and mums are good with kids anyway. Who wants that stereotype for teachers? Mum's work equals low paid work for the whole profession.

IABU for this issue of what goes on in the school to matter so much to me, but I do not think it IABU to expect teachers who are also mums to work the same hours as other professional, committed teachers do, and without their children being there. Nobody seriously goes into teaching thinking they will just work 9-3 and if they do anymore it is because they are some kind of saint.

And I did go to a pre-arranged meeting with a teacher and her two children were in the room. Why would I make this up?

I would have refused to conduct an interview with any teacher with her children present. You should have said no.

My DH works as a solicitor and his firm have no problem if he has DD in his office outside of core working hours. Even before he became partner. So long as she was quiet and occupied and out of the way, and not present for confidential informtion sharing.

I do not think there is any breach of professionalism if a teacher has her child in a classroom outside of core hours.

Haven't read whole thread, but I certainly wouldn't suggest that you are making anything up.

It is, agree, entirely unprofessional to conduct a meeting with children in the room. I'm interested in what type of school this is (you may have said, but I've only skimmed) as one of my children is currently in a private school, and to my astonishment this is the only school where I have ever encountered this type of lack of professionalism.

On the other hand, a teacher who comes in at 8 o'clock and has their kids with them, and stays til 6 pm and does the same... well, sorry, but I don't see the problem. You have no evidence base to suggest that the teacher isn't carrying out their professional duties. Your OP smacks of sour grapes to me, because you resent the few 'perks' that go along with a teaching job.

And your point about reinforcing stereotypes because teaching is seen as something that is good for mums because it'has the same hours as their
children's' is frankly absurd!

All of the above only applies to the very very few teachers who happen to teach in the same school as all of their own children, which must be pretty rare. Most teachers don't, and many of them work a longer day and require more out of school hours care than people in other jobs. When my kids were at nursery, it was only teachers like me who had to pay double time for the nursery to open early at 7.30 to drop our kids off and be in work for 8 am - most other mums were able to drop at 8 or 8.30 and start work shortly before 9. Of course, I could have left my kids later and dashed into work for 8.45.... but I am a professional and do my job properly!

It is a state 3-11 school.

I don't disbelieve you on the meeting as you say it happened-I am very surprised, and I can't think why you agreed to proceed until the DC had been removed.
I do not agree with the rest of your post MillyR-male teachers do the same. The male deputy head of a local school has his two DDs in with him every morning from about 7.30am. Luckily for you teachers don't have a 'clock in, clock out' mentality and put in long hours beyond the contracted hours. Since they are in early, stay late, go home to cook a meal and put DCs to bed and then work until their own bedtime and then work for a whole day at weekends, I don't think you can begrudge them making life easy by taking their DCs into school!

I agree with the OP. In a general sort of way I don't like children knocking about when I am having a meeting in a professional context - I object to the doctor's children knocking around the surgery, for example.

You need to address the issue about meetings MillyR.

And then forget about the rest.
If I had ever taught in the same school as my children, I would undoubtedly have done the same, allowing them into school before the official start of the day. My choice to get to school early, my choice to have my kids in there. Apart from anything else, the school cannot take responsibility for other people's kids outside core hours.

But personally I have always taught in different schools to my children (not as a matter of principle I might add, because if I wanted to apply for a job in the same school then I would. Why should my (or my children's) rights to work/be educated be curtailed because of other people's weird ideas about it 'not being professional' to teach my own children. Bollox. But as I say, the majority of teachers are not going to be working in the same school their children attend, so it's hardly a wide scale issue anyway.

General Medical Council about doctors
"Wherever possible, you should avoid providing medical care to anyone with whom you have a close personal relationship."

Is this also "bollox"?

For what it's worth, accordng to dc one "parent-teacher" is fair but the other one favours her own dc.

I don't think that the General Teaching Council has such a statement.

I have no idea if it's bollox thirdname - I am not in the medical profession and I haven't read up on the rationale behind the statement you quote.

As for your last point, I think you'll find children have all kinds of different perceptions about what is 'fair' etc! My own children describe some teachers as 'fair' and some as not, and it's usually got nothing to do with whether their own child is in the class!

My DH taught one of our children for a while and it worked fine.

Oh and we are also able to provide really useful personal tuition and support for exams/coursework etc now that our kids are at GCSE/A level stage. I wonder if the OP thinks this is unfair too

I teach in the independent sector and it is normal for teachers' children to be pupils.

My DDs do exactly the same as every other child - early morning club, breakfast, late club, prep, games, etc.

If I can make a reasonably quick getaway after school, I will not send my daughters to prep or late club because our school rule is that they have to be in for the whole session. Therefore, I would have them hang around in my classroom while I do whatever I need to before I go (I'm talking if I am manybe pottering about for 20 minutes).

Fortunately, none of our parents would object to this or think it unfair. It never occurred to me that they would until this thread, which frankly I find rather shocking.

We treat all our our pupils in a very civilised way, so don't have any of them hanging outside at the start of the school day. In the state primary my children went to, they were not supervised in the playground until 10 minutes before the start of the school day. I would imagine that if a teachers' child was in school early, they could only be allowed to be in school under the supervision of their parent, and not in the playground unsupervised - that would be a very bad message indeed to the rest of the school community.

The big issue here, apart from a weird attitude towards teachers, is the mismatch between the start of the school day and the dropping off time of the school bus. Perhaps via the parents' council, the OP could investigate closing the gap between these two times - it is not an impossible thing to do. It is much better than throwing her toys out of the pram.

I think it depends how professional a person is at teaching. The teacher the op describes sounds very unprofessional indeed.

That's not to say that ALL teachers behave in such a mannor. When i was in primary school, my teacher had her son in our class. I never saw her treat him with preference and she used to make him call her Mrs XX rather than "mum."

"It probably doesn't influence the promotion of that teacher, but it does reinforce the stereotype that teaching is women's work; it is something mum's do because the holidays are long, the hours are the same as the kids so they don't need childcare, and mums are good with kids anyway. Who wants that stereotype for teachers? Mum's work equals low paid work for the whole profession."

Unless we are talking before about 1978, I think this stereotype exists only in your head , op.
Your attitude towards the profession stinks. So glad you are not a parent at a school where I teach.

Actually I agree feenie.