to believe that teacher's children should be treated in the same way as other pupils

[MillyR]

At my children's primary school, there are a number of teachers working in the school who have children who are pupils in the school and sometimes even in their class. I believe that unless it is essential (because you live on a remote Scottish island), you should not teach your own child as it is unprofessional and almost impossible not to show a preference for your own child and the children that they get on with.

I work 10-7, so I do the morning drop off by public transport. I then stand outside school with my children, sometimes in very unpleasant weather. The children who come on school transport are also stood outside unsupervised. The teacher's children can be clearly seen playing in the classrooms.

Recently, I arranged to go in and speak to a teacher about my child after school, which I then had to take time off work to do. During this meeting, her children were in the classroom. There have also been times when one of teachers has walked past me with her daughters, the older daughter's best friend, and they have all gone in to play in the classroom while the rest of the children had to stay outside. They are also often in the staff room or using other school facilities that are out of bounds to other pupils.

There is out of school club available in a building nearby. My children go to it after school. I think the teacher's children should also have to go to it or wait outside like everyone else.

If a teacher wants to part of her work at home and supervise her kids there, then I am not going to moan about that. But I think it creates a bad atmosphere and sense of unfairness for pupils to be treated differently because their Mum is a teacher.

There is also a huge amount of repeating of confidential information because the teachers tell their friends things, but their friends are the mums from school!

AIBU or is this common?

Surely quattro she can use here as a sounding board before going to the school if that is felt necessary. We can all loose perspective when it comes to our children, especially their eduation, and sometimes a second opinion is helpful,

Florencedaphne, I have been thinking about having a chip on my shoulder about teachers and trying to work out why that is.

I think the thread has kind of established though that teachers do have to work longer hours as directed time, so the teacher is not really on their own time.

On a different note..

Yes, my child does get to school early, but it is a rural area and there is only 1 bus an hour (1 in each direction, so 2 if that makes sense). It is not just my child; it is about 15 kids from 2 buses.

Is it really right that in winter, children (some in nursery and reception) are stood outside every morning for half an hour? it has been really cold this winter and the playground has been iced over a lot; it is not gritted so the children are literally stood. They cannot run around and play.

Now I no school has no responsibility until 9.00, but it seems to be quite unfeeling to not let the kids stand in the hall, supervised by parents. Not all parents can afford two cars, or any car, and are dependent on the bus.

I did look it up online and saw that the Scottish government wants Scottish schools to have to let bus kids into school before school starts in winter, to encourage public transport use and reduce school run traffic. But I don't live in Scotland! My son often cycles to school to avoid the standing about, but my daughter is only 7, and it is a national speed limit road.

So maybe its not why are the teachers kids allowed in, but why have they got such an issue with keeping our kids out?

But Quat are you there for an hour before work and couple of hours afterwards? Outside of school hours I don't see why having your children in your classroom is a problem?

Yes I agree TSAP but the question wasn't "What if anything should I do" which would be a sounding board type of use - it was more letting off steam really.

I should think that Quatt is at work a damned site longer than that each day and no, bringing a child in when working those extra hours would still not be permitted.

But I could if I wanted to go home at 4.30 and take my work home to do when I get in or when dd has gone to bed quattro which I think is where the difference lies.

I tend to arrange my workload so I am not doing something that needs 100% concentration if dd needs to be in , so perhaps displays or admin.

As I said before dp works from home now so dd is not hanging around a school silly hours, when she does come in though it is because dp is helping out in school voluntarily so I do not think I am taking the piss to have dd in.

Hmm, I see your point about the cold and the buses, but remember, the teachers aren't LEGALLY ALLOWED to be responsible for children before school time. As a teacher, of course I feel sorry for the kids stood outside the main entrance 45 minutes before they're allowed in. But if I let them in, I would then be legally responsible for them and their actions. Of couse, the same goes for my child, but then, I'm unlikely to sue myself!

Milly I think that the problem is the bus service really. The kids that get a bus to our school have a special bus that arrives about 5 mins before school and leaves 10 mins after.

Before school isn't directed time, the agreement is we get all our work done, whenever we can. During directed time, meetings and the like totally inappropriate to have your children around.

Thanks soapy, and yes I am in the office for long hours.

We all seem to agree that the OP is not being unreasonable on complaints 2&3. It's just the first one that seems to be at issue now.

Okay can I just ask the teachers to flip the position to that of the other parents? Who see their children out in the cold/rain etc or have to pay for before/after school clubs? While it is a perk of your job that you can do this in the classroom?

I just think it is different and it is hard to explain why. Obviously children shoould not be in during meetings and during the core school day. I am not condoning breaching of confidentiality either, I would complain.

At the school I teach in there is a huge emphasis on community and family and it is not unusual to see children or partners or husbands of children around. Every time there is a school event my whole family comes with me. In a previous school the corridors needed painting and there was no money for overtime for caretakers to do it, so my dp came in after work to do them, it was then necessary for dd to be in school while I did my own work. When I was involved in drama and musical productions again dd and dp come along to help out ot watch.I am infamous for my classroom displays that is because once a week my dp and dd come in and do them for me, again while I get on with my own work.

I think one of the reasons I am so respected as a teacher is because the kids see me as a real person with her own family that they can identify with.

Again it is seondary but I teach in a school in the middle of nowhere and the kids are allowed in as many kids arrive very early because of parents working commitments or bus timetables.

Sorry, got confused between the directed/undirected; i thought the extra work was called: directed. The point was it is part of the teaching job.

I work in my office when my place of work is shut. If I took my children in out of hours, there would not be an issue, it wouldn't cause inconvenience and I would not be told off, but if anyone found out, it would be considered very unprofessional.

I think what I am taking is from this thread is that some people think it is okay, some people think it isn't and that the teachers who do it are not overly concerned with what people think about it.

I have to say tbh quatro that if I were a primary teacher which I am not and dd had the choice between being in a room with me or out with her friends she would be outside.

I have said that I think the situation is different for primary than seondary and I do not know what I would do about the before school thing. When dd reception teacher had a child at school he was put into breakfast and afterschool club every day and that did seem evry sensible to me because you could not have a young child in your room every day after school and keep up with your workload.

No your core hours are directed I would never have dd in during directed time ( although have done on one occassion )

The extra time is not directed and teachers can to a certain extent choose what hours they work, although there are things that need doing so there has to be some work done out of school.

I am a workaholi so tend to work on an average day from 7 in the morning until about 10 at night. If I get distracted my mumsnet I have to work until the earlty hours! Obviulsly for some of that time dd is present as otherwise I would never see her. Most of my colleagues start at 8 and stay in school until about five and maybe do about 2 - 3 hours a night. I do know some who do nothing at home, they tend to be crap teachers.

Twinset, I think is a big difference with secondary in that they often act as community type centres, and have people in to learn knitting and Italian and host mother and baby groups and all sorts. So your child coming in is a kind of continuation of that.

There are a lot of changes afoot at my kids' primary school; they are actively trying to stop parents coming into the school for any reason, unless they have an appointment and generally toughen up and make things much more formal. So it doesn't really have the same feel as our local community high school.

Yes I agree MillyR there is a big difference and as I said I am not sure what I would do if I taught primary. I think from memory that the teachers on this thread who have said it is ok to have kids in have been mainly secondary teachers. I actually dont think I could teach primary tbh, much harder than seondary IMO.

I have always enouraged parents to come into school , while making the school a seuire and safe place.

One morning my husband dropped off my daughter in the car; I was at home as ds ill. Dh decided it was too icy for dd so he just took her into school; the head said he couldn't, my husband raised point of teachers' kids, the head said they were in out of school club not in school, and my husband said that this was a lie (dh had also seen them through window). The Head then said they could go into school just this once. Then all the bus kids walked in after dh.

I phoned the head to ask if he would let us in the next day, but he didn't get back to me. They had to shut the school later that day and send the kids home because of the weather, and after that I didn't pursue it because I really am not sure if IABU, and this thread seems pretty split on it, so I will probably continue not to do anything and just have a slightly more unsure internal monologue of borderline unreasonableness.

I think tbh that there are other issues in education to get het up about.

Yes, twinset, you are right and thanks for being so reasonable with me. It has been very therapeutic.

It is however, easier to get wound up by the things that don't matter that much, rather than get to grips with the major things (waiting to hear which secondary school ds goes to in September for example).

Not a problem millyR I think you have held your case well as lots of people have disagreed with you.

Good luck with the school for your son.

Twinset my mother wasn't a dragon She was a very good teacher in fact. There were three of us in my class who had parents as teachers, and none of us enjoyed it. One child, who was the daughter of the drama teacher, was forever having older girls (it was a girls school) coming up and calling her "little drama teacher's name" and making a pet of her, which she hated. I had people coming up and saying stuff about things which were private to my family, which my mum had used as subject matter in her teaching (she was an RE/ethics teacher), and the other girl, whose mum wasn't popular got teased about it, and reacted very badly. Oh, and my mother's friends in the staff room tried calling me my family nick name (and I didn't like them, so that made me very angry), and my mother thought I should call her Mrs xxx, which I thought was totally out of order. The point is that your family life and your school life boundaries get broken, and I think as a teenager it is very important that your school world and your home world are separate, as school is where you do a lot of growing into yourself. I could never moan to my friends about my mum being unreasonable, because they all really liked her, and I could never say anything about school to my mother. Actually I think that is one of the biggest losses, if you have a conscientious teacher as your parent you can no longer say anything about school, and that's what we did before she came and taught there - we lost that "how was your day" conversation completely. Finally I think it is really difficult as a teacher/parent to manage the staff room chitchat about children, and not over-react. Loads of stuff which my mother would not have even known about got turned into huge rows, because my mum was embarrassed when her colleagues made some derogatory remark about something I said or what I was wearing (normal teenage stuff). Anyway, after two or three years of it my mother and I ceased talking to each other, and my father arranged for me to go to boarding school.

Just something to think on!

Your mum and I teach the same subject

Of course I would not see dd unhappy and if she did not want to go to my school I would not force her, we are lucky that we have choies including a grammar and the option to go private.

I do wonder how much of your experience is linked to being in a girls school, lots of staff that I worked with went to the girls grammar in the next town and they have some horrific stories.

What you desribe does not sound like the experiences of the children at my school whose parents teach there. Off the top of my head I think we have about 10 students whose parents teach at the school. I have never known a school have so many children of teachers on the books, apart from in the private public sector. But it is a very special school with a huge emphasis on family and community. The head is also very encouraging of teachers who wish to send their children there.

But thankyou for sharing that with me it has given me things to think about, we have a few years to go yet.

My dd really wants to fo to boarding school! I have never been sure of how to take this/

Oh boarding school just sounds romantic when you are seven! Like having a sleepover every night

I think opinions are quite divided as to teaching at your child's school (or having your child come to the school you teach at). My experiences have more to do with the dynamics between me and my mother than with the school, where otherwise I was very happy. Our relationship might have been difficult at that time anyway, who knows. But I have to admit I am still (at least a bit) angry with her about her choice to come to my school, and it's twenty-five years later!

If the school is very community orientated it might not be such a big deal I guess, but I do think you have to bear in mind that she would arrive very much as Twin's daughter, rather than in her own right to many staff and older children. Of course she might rather like that. I'm afraid I made my mother's life as difficult as possible - never called her Mrs xxx, always said when asked that I was there first etc etc. I was a bolshy teenager!

It seems to me that the problem is the school bus-it is simply getting the DCs to school far too early. The school isn't responsible for DCs until 10 minutes before school starts.A teacher in early has a list as long as their arm of jobs that need doing-they are not there to supervise children, their own DC knows the score and will amuse themselves or help. It is very different to an office job. The teacher doesn't have to be there an hour and a half before school starts so they shouldn't be paying for childcare when they are doing preparation. It is the same at the end of the school day-they don't have to be there.They could do a lot of it at home but it is more convenient to do it at work.I would prefer to have the teacher there early, than coming in at the last minute because a few parents are jealous! A teacher has to be harder on their own DC, for example less likely to choose them for a main part in a play etc-it may be a bit unfair but it is the price they pay for convenience.

I have spent the last four evening preparing for Inset on Monday. I work as a PT teacher. I spend hours at home working unpaid to do a good job, so I can leave to meet the demands of childcare on the days I am in school. It's called time management.

Sometimes my child comes into school with me.