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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

.. to think it wasn't up to nursery staff to tell DD this?

226 replies

HollyCherry · 31/12/2008 12:16

Just interested in opinions really.

DD is 4.3 and last night gave me a big soppy hug and said, "I want to marry you when I grow up"

I told her that girls can't marry girls, to which she replied - "Yes they can - x at nursery says girls can marry girls and boys can marry boys"

I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for even raising the subject - but I really don't expect the nursery to be filling a 4 year old in on these kind of details?

OP posts:
georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:06

I sympathise SGB.

I struggle to contain my prejudice towards people who are dimwitted enough to assume that because they think religion is superstition they must be right, and seem to be unable to encounter the word on a thread on MN without barking out "imaginary friend" like one of Pavlov's dogs. But I too tell myself they are probably good at heart.

smittenkitten · 31/12/2008 15:07

LOL solidgold!

I am extremely heartened by the majority view on this thread, and that it's just a couple of MNetters who would rather the sordid issue of me and my family would disappear.

MillyR · 31/12/2008 15:07

There are things my kids are told at school (and when they are in nursery) that I do not agree with. I tell my children this, and I tell them that I believe the school are wrong. I doubt there is any parent that agrees with all of the state sanctioned belief systems put forward in school.

But we cannot all have the education system we want, because we all want different things!

I believe the law is right because it is more important that children with gay parents are acknowledged than it is important that religious parents get to have the existence of gay families denied.

My youngest child does not know what sex is, but she still understands about friends who have 2 mums.

Blu · 31/12/2008 15:09

Things a nursery could 'spring' on a child / parent:

Meat comes from animals
The sun will one day go out - but not when we're here (hopefully)
Milk comes from cows
Babies come from Mummies
Food turns into poo
Pets die
The library is shut on Sundays
Mermaids do not exist
Girls in the Royal Family do not have the same right of accession to the throne as boys - boys come first.
The tap water in London has been drunk before, by someone else.

Why is the plain, simple and legal fact that adult same sex couples fall in love and live together ANY different to any of these facts in that it might need any censorship?

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:11

Did anyone say they wanted the existence of gay families denied? No, thought not.

I just don't want my 4 year old (when he is 4) told about things that I deem to be too complex for him, by people other than me. That's all. I didn't know what homosexuality was when I was 4. I have managed to get to grips with the concept in the intervening 26 years. This is not a big deal.

AMumInScotland · 31/12/2008 15:11

I'd agree there isn't a "need" for this issue to be discussed at a nursery, but on the other hand there is a need for the nursery staff to respond appropriately to comments when they arise naturally in the children's conversations about their family life - like in MillyRs examples. For the staff to ignore comments, or fail to clarify them, is surely much worse?

You can't stop another 4 year old at the nursery from commenting about their own family's circumstances - perhaps their own parents are in a single sex relationship, perhaps they have been to a civil partnership ceremony recently, or will be soon - so if they talk about their relatives marrying someone of the same sex, and another child says that's not possible, should the staff agree it's not possible? Or go into a long discussion about the difference between marriage and civil partnership? Or explain in simple age-appropriate terms that yes, girls can marry girls?

I know which I think they should do - I find it strange that anyone thinks there is a better way of handling the situation.

OrmIrian · 31/12/2008 15:11

Well exactly.

As I said you can't pick and choose which facts other people tell your DC unless you tell them beforehand.

Having said that I have tried really hard to persuade my DC not to tell people that God doesn't exist and religion is simply an outdated method of control, but then perhaps I am more respectful of other people's feelings

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:12

Several things on your list that I would prefer to explain to my son myself, Blu.

Blu · 31/12/2008 15:12

ooooh, Smitten, tell us about your sordid life!

OrmIrian · 31/12/2008 15:12

It's not complex.

People fall in love with people. How is that complex?

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:13

How is love complex?

Have you seen the relationships section on this board?

Blu · 31/12/2008 15:15

georgie - I daresay you would, but you can hardly send your child to be cared fo by a nursery and then expect them to second guess every sinegle subject that comes up as 'off limits'.
And as in all things, parents can expand, explain, contextualise the details given at nursery.
At 4 children are starting to go out into the world and bring things back to thier parents - a VERY important developmental stage and opportunity (read P leach) - they tell you what they have learned / experienced, you discuss it with them.

As a matter of interest - from my list, what would you prefer was kept under wraps? If it came up as the subject of discussion or enquiry from lively-minded 4 year-olds?

smittenkitten · 31/12/2008 15:17

Oh Blu, I wish it was as sordid as people seem to think. Like most hetero couples, we are so busy working and raising our DS that we fall into bed too tired to have sex!

Georgimama - I know we are never going to agree, but I really don't understand how same sex couples is a complex issue. It's only an issue if you make it one. To people who grow up exposed to a wide range of ideas, it's just a normal part of life.

right, I'm off to collect DS from mursery. Hope I don't cause a stir, or prompt some hitherto unsullied child from a normal family to ask complex and difficult questions.

Blu · 31/12/2008 15:17

georgie - but why is homosexual love any more complex - in the way any of it would be discussed with 4 yos, which is 'two people fall in love, live together' - more complex than hetero?

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:18

It's not a case of under wraps. I would be perfectly happy to discuss any of those issues with my son when he reaches the age of 4, or indeed before then if he asks me or the issue comes up - such as we are invited to a same sex partnership ceremony, or our dog dies.

But I would prefer to tell my child about those kinds of things myself, in the amount of detail I deem appropriate at the time as his mother, that's all. I can't understand why that is contraversial.

OrmIrian · 31/12/2008 15:20

Love is complex. What genders are involved in it is the least of the complexities.

TLESinChristmasStockings · 31/12/2008 15:20

Homosexuals are happy to be who they are and with who they want to be with

Hetrosexuals are happy to be who they are an with who they want to be with

Now tell me the difference? Oh and please don't tell me it is the religion side of it as a hell of a lot of priests and vicars are Homosexual

MillyR · 31/12/2008 15:21

Georgimama, what are you going to do if, when your child is 4, a child in the class says that they live with two Mums?

Also, it is quite normal for nursery classes in schools to do a 'there are all sorts of families' type talk, about fostered children and step children and single parent families and people who live with grandparents and so on.

And if a child says a boy can't have a boyfriend, they are denying the existence of gay relationships. They should be corrected, surely, just as a child who says mum's can't have a job should be.

I don't believe schools acting in this way are undermining religious values. The values taught at school only undermine home values if the home influence is very weak to start with, which is unlikely in families with a strong religious conviction.

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:21

Because for my son at least (at the moment anyway) the concept will be other and different and therefore unfamiliar, that's all.

His father and I are married, his uncles and aunts are all married, his childminder is married, he doesn't have any adults in his direct social sphere who isn't heterosexual and either married or divorced. Yes, I will tell him that lots of people don't live in same sex relationships, but for him at the moment a heterosexual two parent step up is the "norm". If it weren't, it wouldn't be complex to explain.

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:23

It actually has nothing to do with religion for me. Lots of Christians and clergy are gay, as you say. It is a case of what my son is familiar with and introducing him to the idea that not everyone lives in the set up he is familiar with.

PlonkerAlkaseltzerInMyGlass · 31/12/2008 15:24

Lmao solidgold - great post!

Blu · 31/12/2008 15:27

But Georgie...if a child at nursery comes in and is sad (or gorily gruseome, or both) that his dog has died, then it will come up in your absence.

From the time we leave our children to any independent communication with others we cannot control every aspect of input. Most adults are v sensitive about how they talk about things which are generally beyond the likely experience of a 4 yo, and would NOT launch into a 'one day your gran will die' convo out of the blue - nor explain the mechanics of sex or rape, or how to use heroin. But there may well be a child at the OPs nursery who is picked up in turn by one of two Dads...or two Mums. It's normal, it happens, how can you possibly expect a nursery to do anything other than be factual (give or take a marriage / civil partnership difference)?

georgimama · 31/12/2008 15:31

They probably can't help but be factual but I would prefer to discuss these types of things with my son myself, given the opportunity. That's all.

piscesmoon · 31/12/2008 15:33

I don't expect that the nursery went into great detail-but if asked the question they would need to tell the truth.

TLESinChristmasStockings · 31/12/2008 15:36

IMO I can't see a problem with what was said. it was the truth and therefore better for the child!