.. to think it wasn't up to nursery staff to tell DD this?

[HollyCherry]

Just interested in opinions really.

DD is 4.3 and last night gave me a big soppy hug and said, "I want to marry you when I grow up"

I told her that girls can't marry girls, to which she replied - "Yes they can - x at nursery says girls can marry girls and boys can marry boys"

I have a feeling I'm going to get flamed for even raising the subject - but I really don't expect the nursery to be filling a 4 year old in on these kind of details?

DMWBOH, that is such a shame for all of you. Maybe it will get sorted out at some point in the future. It is difficult for you to do anything about it because it is not your sister. Maybe she told your BF because she wants there to be a change in the situation.

Hollyberry

I would have been pleased the staff told my kids this (though would be a bit late for the 3 year old as we attended a marriage of gay friends of ours, in fact I probably should get round to teling him men and women get married too!)

I always think it is best to be honest with kids from the start and to bring up such 'issues' (though to me there are no issues to be had) as young as possible. They then will hopefully be as open minded as possible. They will just accept that some people are gay some not, just as some believe in religion and some don't.

also should your daughter be gay she will have far less problems in life if she views it as normal. And then be open with you about her sexuality. Unlike your friend who if he is gay is obviously not able to be open to you or your husband.

erm, georgimama, why does the homosexuality issue need side stepping?

Because as has been demonstrated here, some parents are not comfortable with certain things being explained to their children by other people. This applies as much to sex, religion, ethics, politics, anything really that parents prefer to deal with themselves.

And I doubt it occurred to the OP when making her list of foods to avoid that she didn't want same sex relationships discussed with her 4 year old.

Georgimama, I made the comment about knowing gay people. I don't think it makes you a bigot if you don't know any gay people; I am just surprised. My children do not know people from a wide mix of ethnic groups, but I think that is to do with rural vs. urban living. I do find it surprising that so many people have no gay family or close friends and that their children are going to school where there are no children from gay headed families.

While children can't get married, they also can't iron, operate washing machines, run shops etc. They pretend to do these things at nursery and the nursery staff would say, if asked, boys can iron, not just girls.

So I am sure that a 4 year old can understand that a girl marrying a girl really means a grown up.

But how should the nursery deal with having a gay member of staff for example? Or a parent of another child that was gay? What should they do if a child asked about that.' Why does your mummy have a gf' for example. It happens, Christian or not, you have to accept that fact.

I agree with wheresthehamster's response about it being lovely; ds wants to marry his sister so we can all live together forever.

The nursery response to the op's dd sounds as if it didn't involve any moral judgement, just a factual reply.

When my DS#1 was in yr4 he started using 'gay' as an insult. I told him not to, and why. How should I have dealt with that without explaining?

How would a child know if a member of staff was gay? Is it normal to sit and discuss adult's domestic arrangements with toddlers?

I live in a rural area. I have some gay acquiatances through work or other friends but my son has never met them. None of our family are gay. None of our neighbours are gay. My son isn't at school yet. I don't know if the other mindees parents are gay, I have absolutely no reason to ask or find out.

My sister is married (well I call it that, never understood the difference personally) to her partner, or 'wife' as we sometiems say.
They are very happy
I don't see the problem really.

The way I explain it to ds (5) is that men can marry men and women can marry women, all that matters is you find somebody you're comfortable with, and want to live with, and then you can get married.

i think he hears conflicting stuff at school

I just try to stay consistent

Have discussed possibility for him one day to meet a man, or a woman, whom he loves very much, that kind of thing - nothing is ruled out except for him marrying me or his brother

which he wouldn't want to do anyway...lol

I would think that a nursery is not allowed to side step this issue under the Equality Act, and if a nursery did try to deny the existence of same sex relationships, I certainly would complain to Ofsted.

There are elements of religion that I do not agree with, but I accept that in an educational establishment, my children will be told about them.

A person who wants the existence of gay people side stepped holds an extreme view. That is fine, but I do not feel that such a view can be accommodated in a school or nursery. Such a person would have to home school if they wanted their child to not be exposed to the existence of gay families.

Year 4 is a bit different to age 4.

I really doubt that any nursery is under a legal obligation to tell 4 year olds about homosexuality.

Well they might know if the child told them about mummy and mummy (or whatever). CHildren don't tend to censor details do they? The point being that if you don't want anyone else to tell a child this you should tell them first, or never let them go out of the door. The truth might dawn on them at any point.

But it's actually irrelevant whether this dicussion is about homosexuality, vegetarianism, buddhism or macrame! You cannot expect a nursery (or anyone else) to make the same moral decisions as you unless you have discussed it beforehand.

I do think if this subject is discussed more openly and with parents giving it thought rather than worrying about it then when children do get to year 4 and they may have a classmate whose parent are same sex then at least they may be able to accept it. I taught a boy who was mercilessly bullied because his mother was in a same sex relationship at the time. By answering questions as they arise children can then be introduced to the idea that realtionships come in all shapes and sizes.

I wouldn't have a problem with the response from the nursery worker and agree with others that it would of been better to say to your dd that you couldn't get married to her because you are her mummy.

They are not under a legal obligation to tell them about gay relationships if it does not come up(that would be a positive duty to promote equality, which applies to race and disability but not to sexual orientation and religion), but they certainly have an obligation to correct a child who says a boy can't have a boyfriend (a negative duty to prevent inequality applies to all the named forms of discrimination including sexual orientation).

Nursery isn't school (it's a shame that with Early Years they are being made into them) and I just don't think there is a need for these types of issues to be discussed there. Children do talk openly, of course they do, but I would prefer to talk to my son about these issues myself rather than have it sprung on me that his nursery nurse told him about xyz today.

But if it doesn't worry you there is no need to 'introduce' the subject unnaturally. It's only a problem if you are concerned about how/when your child learns the facts.

little ducks they CAN in the states

I don't understand why people think it is necessary / appropriate to apply any age barrier to knowing that same sex couples have committed lifelong relationships. It's NO different to knowing that straight couples fall in love and decide to live together. If you grow upunderstanding that homosexuality is somehow a 'special case' for knowledge by (knowing look) older children only and to be talked of in serious tones by parents only, then it does stand to reason that you are more likely not to view it as completely normal..'normal' tending to have strong links to 'acceptable'.

I wonder if sometimes people tend to conflate knowing about gay sex with knowing about gay relationships? If the nursery - or anyone - had launched into a description of gay sex then I would think 'above and beyond the brief', but of course that would apply equally to seguing from talking about marriage to talking about the details of sexual relationships.

Anyway, it sounds as if the nursery acted entirely appropriately.

You know, I try quite hard to overcome my prejudices towards people who cannot stop trumpeting their farking superstition. I tell myself they aren't necessarily all tight-arsed homophpbic twunts who use their superstition to justify their homophobia bleat about 'sidestepping the subject' and 'is it relevant' making it blindingly obvious that they want certain categories of people to disappear and not exist. I do try to remember that religious people are often lovely and tolerant and sensible and indeed not invariably heterosexual.
But some of the fuckwittery on this thread is not helping.

sorry..."LESS likely to view it as cmpletely normal"

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