to want my DS to attend a more white than black school?

[NattyTurkeyAndEggnog]

am posting this timidly in case it is misinterpred...

there is a choice of two catholic schools locally, one is three quaters black african, and the other is three quaters white british.

now i said to dh that id prefer the white majority school, as i feel my white children would fit in better, and i would with the other parents. i dont mean it in a way that i think white ppl are better, or anything like that, in fact the other school has higher exam results. just that i am concerned with sending my child to a school that they will be very much a minority.

but DH said that he should go to the better results school.

now im torn, because im very aware that kids pick up on a child being different, and i was bullied horrendously in school.

please dont read this as a black/white thing, i would feel the same about him going to a non-religous school for the same reasons.

ok i will stand back and wait for the back lash now

when I said non-britishness I meant non-anglo-saxon BTW

thank you bubble, (bauble) butterfly and sal.

"Urmmm...NO. Not all parents have these concerns. I don't. My kids aren't white. Oh, and I find it really, really worrying that other people do have these 'concerns' about their kids mixing with my kids. Really worrying."

dont all parents have concerns about their kids mixing with all kids, yours, mine, nattyturkeyandeggnogs. Everyone wants their kids to be accepted and worries about reaons why they may not surely

ESL worries here in London, certainly - are more to do with funding for ESL support than anything else.

White british people do not suffer racism in the number of levels both apparent and hidden that people of colour do. We are the majority and have not been victims of prejudice and persecution at the hands of the state, justice system, media or society as a whole. Even if a white child was a minority by a long way they would still watch their predominently white successful people in the media, politics, business people and therefore they would not feel the same as a black or asian person.
I haven't read the whole thread but also must add that if there are many different cultures at this school then surely there are many first languages, this may be slightly different if 75% children spoke the same first language but this is not the case.

I'm white and I've suffered a whole lot of racism, from other white people, black people and asian people. I've been beaten up because of my accent. White people are not always the givers, we can be the receivers too.

I remember a discussion about racism in school where one of the black girls said its defined as people discriminating against black or Asian people. The (white) teacher said yes that's right . I felt that the idea of racism being one directional is SOO racist and just plain untrue

OK.

If I (and I don't) lived in a rural area where the main inhabitants had traditionally been WASPs and I posted an OP saying..

'I feel uncomfortable when I pick my son up from his friend's house as his parents are Polish and his friend usually has other Polish children other than my DS home for tea as well. I feel uncomfortable as the other mothers don't speak very good English and I feel like the odd one out. I prefer it when he plays with his English/British friends.

How would that go down here on mnet?

I would guess, in the main - supportive.

Try that again but substitute Polish with Somalian.

How would that go down?

There is definately more hostility towards Eastern Europeans where I live than there is to any other ethnic group.

As for the people screaming 'racist' did it ever occur to anyone that there might be shades of grey? I think we should perhaps go back to speaking of racial prejudice or something similar when speaking of people who may well be biased in their attitudes, but are not pouring petrol through the letterboxes of people who look different than them or joining marches in support of repatriation.

I think your last post explains what you mean much better. My mum always fought to get all 4 of her children into the best schools available locally as she felt it was best, unfortunately we were from the most run down estate for miles. This meant any friends i made at school werent allowed to come to my house and some were even told they couldnt play with me. But when I think about it now, all that prejudice came from the parents. Try not to be one of those parents.

SalBySea, I have sincerely never worried about my DC mixing with kids from other cultures. (I'm from East London originally.)
It has never been an issue for me. (Can't believe I'm having this converation in this day and age FFS)

Natty, I've read the page of this (and will read more later).

I'll be frank. I don't think this thread is about bullying. I think you find the idea of a non-white majority uncomfortable. The word 'racist' is a strong one, when in fact prejudices based on skin colour would be more helpfully described on a continuum. So I won't say you're racist, but I think there's definitely something reactionary in you that's not about a fear of bullying. You would help yourself and your DCs to examine yourself honestly and openly and work out whether this is true, and if so why you feel this way. I've done this myself on many occasions - think of it as self-psychotherapy. Believe me, without doing this you're worse off.

Is there a certain way that the black kids speak or behave that you're concerned about? I'm black and wouldn't be overjoyed if my children ended up talking 'street' because I don't especially like that 'Jafakin' way of speaking, however, at the same time I know that children go through phases (as did I - tried every accent under the sun whilst at 2ndary school!).

Is there something else that's behind this prejudice? It clearly is a prejudice, and it's potentially threatening your children's chances for the best education possible.

You need to deal with this now, so that your children are not disadvantaged by your fears.

But if she'd written exactly the same OP about a Caucasian non English speaking majority she wouldn't have been flamed.

How does that work, then?

butterfly, thomas SN is a consideration, as he finds it hard to make friends and DOES shy away from ppl that are different from him (by that i mean other things than colour, he was terrified of the postman because he was ginger)
but i am keen to get him into a mainstream school, and i suppose it is making me over sensitve to ANYTHING that could get him picked on.
one of the reasons he is going to a catholic school is because i was teased in a non religous school, because i believed, and i dont want that to happen to him.

techpep

my DH had a very similar experience. His parents worked 7 day weeks to send him to private school but he was the poor kid at the posh school who didnt go on holidays like the other kids and was the only one in hand-me-downs and got picked up in a banger and lived in a crappy area. I dont know how much of the bullying he suffered was really from the parents attitudes, but he's sure that at least some of it was because he was visibly different (scruffy hand me down clothes)

mrsmerry it IS about bullying, and like i said if u knew me in RL u would understand this.
i was bullied all the way through primary and secondary school, i was miserable, tried to commit suicide a number of times, and hated myself for being different, hatedmy parents for sending me to a school where EVERYBODY else was different to me.
so yes it IS about bullying, but i suppose if u havent been though what i have been though u wouldnt understand that being bullied can ruin and effect your entire life.

"Is there a certain way that the black kids speak or behave that you're concerned about? I'm black and wouldn't be overjoyed if my children ended up talking 'street' because I don't especially like that 'Jafakin' way of speaking, however, at the same time I know that children go through phases (as did I - tried every accent under the sun whilst at 2ndary school!)."

Oh god - I am so ashamed of the 2 years of street talk I went through in secondary school LOL - The one thing worse than chav is fake chav!

Tiredsville - I dont think its so much about her kid mixing with "different" kids, I think its about not wanting HER kid to be the "different" one! Kids are unforgiving enough without your kid standing out from the others in a very visible way. I dont get the impression that the other school she's considering is all white

I went to a mostly white school. I tried hanging out with loads of different groups in school, including the black kids' group (there were so few of us that there was only one group!). I got picked on by the others in that group, because I wasn't 'street' enough. Go figure.

If it's not skin colour, it's something else. As SalbySea said, it's not the end of the world if school is a bit tough - life is tough anyway. I barely remember those bad experiences of school now - rather than taking a George Bush-style preemptive strike against the possibility that her child may be bullied because of skin colour, the OP should take the long view. If there is bullying, she can deal with it. If there isn't, she can rejoice at her kids' excellent exam results.

I have read op, and have read through (most) the thread, I do not think the op is racist, I think a lot of people who are afraid to discuss race or the position it holds in our society as they feel anything that differs from the pc norm are afraid they will be viewed as racist.

If I spoke of my feelings toward my neighbours, would this be neighbourisim? Or just a conversation about my neighbours!

Race can be discussed intelligently and without prejudice, with views that differ or change, it doesn't make it racism, racism is a hatred toward another, I dont hear that from the op.

I personally don't think that asking a question on mn, from one mother to another mother about her feelings toward schools and the differences in them is racism, if it was the distance, or the curriculum would that be an ISIM?? or would it be a mother voicing her concerns and asking for the opinions and help of others.

I understand you have concerns about your childrens wellbeing (whether its racist or not) but IME it is religion rather than skin colour that causes the problems. I have given up reading the entire thread as its a bit boring everyone jumping on the "you are racist" bandwagon. Personally, i would visit the schools and but more importantly ask your children where they would like to go. perhaps they would like to stay with their friends

Natty. If your son has SN, will he have a statement?

I was SEN gov at the Bubble Boys school for 4 years and, IME, it helps everyone.

Your son gets the 1:1 and the class gets an extra adult.

Fake chav!!! that's brilliant. Like chav is something to aspire to!!

Hilarious that I tried fakin Jamaican - seeing as my family is African

Natty, I am very sorry that you had such an awful experience of bullying, and since you mentioned suicide that's something I have close family experience of. So I don't take that sort of thing lightly.

You must realise, though, that you simply can't protect your children from everything. If this is something you regularly try to do, you will suffocate your children emotionally and make them far less 'fit' to survive in the world.

If they are bullied your experience makes you the best person to empathise and ensure that it is dealt with swiftly and firmly. If they are not bullied (and statistically that's probably the most likely outcome, I'm sure) then great! But what if you sent your children to the white school and they got bullied for some other reason? How stupid would you feel?

Despite your protestations it is exceedingly difficult to see this as NOT an issue of prejudice.

i agree i cant save him from being bullied.
its is also that i am scared he will hate me for picking the wrong school.
i hated my parents for sending me to the school i asked not to go to, i wanted to go to a diff school and was made to attend the one that the bullies from my primary school went to.
i suppose thats alot to do with it to. if i send him to the one that he gets bullied in will he hate me as much as i hated my mum?