to want my DS to attend a more white than black school?

[NattyTurkeyAndEggnog]

am posting this timidly in case it is misinterpred...

there is a choice of two catholic schools locally, one is three quaters black african, and the other is three quaters white british.

now i said to dh that id prefer the white majority school, as i feel my white children would fit in better, and i would with the other parents. i dont mean it in a way that i think white ppl are better, or anything like that, in fact the other school has higher exam results. just that i am concerned with sending my child to a school that they will be very much a minority.

but DH said that he should go to the better results school.

now im torn, because im very aware that kids pick up on a child being different, and i was bullied horrendously in school.

please dont read this as a black/white thing, i would feel the same about him going to a non-religous school for the same reasons.

ok i will stand back and wait for the back lash now

I best not go read that thread then or I'll get my hijab ina twist

If you're worried about how your son will fit in school because of his SNs, I really don't understand why you create a thread about a black school vs a white school and don't think it's necessary to mention his SNs until ppl accuse you of being racist...

I also don't understand how you being bullied because you were poor has anything to do with his probability of being bullied in a majorly white or black school...

I don't understand your concern about him not fitting in the black school because everyone else will speak the same non-English language (there are black british ppl around and Africa is not a country and not all white ppl speak English as a first language).

I also don't understand your concerns about traditional dress and food. I though that being black or white didn't define how you dress or what type of food you eat... As far as I know even siblings can have different styles of dressing and prefer different types of food.

And I really don't understand all of these concerns when you go on to mention that your child's friends are not of the same ethnic background as he is. Surely that would have taken some of your worries away?

Seriously, what does being black or white have to do with your child being bullied because of his SNs? Are black ppl more likely to bully someone because of their SNs than white ppl? Or vice-versa? I missed that survey...

So yeah, you might not be racist in the "I hate anyone who's different and I'm superior to them in every way possible" but you should definitely look into your prejudices and feelings relating to bullying before you transfer them onto your child.

I was bullied badly at primary school to the point of feeling suicidal at the age of 8.

This was a 100% white village school.

When I moved to the grammar school with a good mix of ethnic people I got on fab.

Children will bully each other - they will find a way if they are going to do it.

I was bullied too all the way through primary and secondary. Kids will pick on anyone.

I was bullied- I had glasses.

Dh was bullied- he was a techie.

there's a reason to bully anyone if eople want to look for it.

DS1 and ds2 get bullied, ds1 has ASD. DS3 has never been bullied in his life. He has ASD as well.

CAn you see a pattern? Me neither

Me too - was bullied for my colouring

I was not bullied but I was laughed at because my clothes were always so shit. They were.

I read one of the posts as 'mumsnetters are not a race you know!' and I thought, wow, does that need clarification. Then I had a closer look and it said Muslims!

My xmil used to describe herself as coloured. I just let her get on with it. I wouldn't describe anybody else as coloured though. Just my xmil.

OP, get your child to do lots of local extra curricular type activities to build up his confidence.

Some bullying is indeed random. But plonking a child somewhere where they will stand out, and expecting them to get on with it is IMO unfair, and detrimental to the likelihood of them learning how to make friends (which is some of the most important learning at primary school). I'm not suggesting that that would be the case in either of these two schools, but it is what my parents did to me and my siblings and I would not do the same to my children. Saying that children do not notice or care about differences is simply not true. They are very perceptive, and they can be very cruel, there may not be active bullying, but simply excluding a child from friendship groups is enough to damage self esteem. The Child of Our Times programmea couple of years ago included some research showing that young children look for similarities in the friends, and when asked about "which child was naughtiest etc" always picked the child most similar to them for the good things, and the most different for the bad ones. This was for five year olds. My experience was that in the infant years friendships were fairly fluid and inclusive, but then shrank at junior. Of course there are many differences a child can have, and you can't predict which ones will matter, but it is not unreasonable to worry about it, and it is IMO a huge responsibility to pick the right school for your child. I don't resent my parents for picking the school they did for us, but I do think my mother was incredibly naive to think that us being so different would not matter.

I'm tempted to say I'd avoid any school attending by anyone who grows up writing 'ppl'. Is making my teeth grate. Does omitting three vowels really save so much time, in a lengthy post full of much longer words that have been written in full?

bugger I switched tense while writing that post and forgot to correct it!

dh is non-white and although friendly with the "white" parents here there is a large, parially cultural, gap bewteen them. I don't get on with dh friends in that they don't even talk in English if there are more then 2 poeple in the room.
So yes, I do understand op concerns.
On the other hand, my dc children however don't seem to bother about it, they get on with "everybody". I do think that children will bully for any reason, so different races etc or not shouldn't make a difference.

I think some of the vitriolic responses to your question on this thread demonstrate that anyone can bully - be they black or white - assuming that the posters here are a mix of black/white. Not that I agree with your point of view at all - I would send my kids to the school that they like the feel of best - but some people prefer to shout abuse rather than communicate in any other way.

Haven't read full thread. Apologies.

I live midway between two primary schools, one 85% white, one 85% non-white.

My children are mixed race - one quarter black. Two are obviously mixed race, one looks completely caucasian.

I sent my children to the school with 85% non-white, because it's a better school and has a better atmosphere. You should do the same - send your child to the school which has the best 'feel' to it. My dc's are friends with children from so many backgrounds, Turkish, African, West Indian.... I think it hugely enriches their lives to be exposed to other cultures in this way. They doesn't perceive the barriers that adults to. None of the children do.

What a relief to come back onto this thread and see that there are more people posting thoughtful responses, rather than just baying at the OP.

Apparently it's hardwired into us to feel unease when we're 'outnumbered' by people of different racial origins. It may not be a particularly admirable trait, it originates from a time when people feared that other tribes would steal food and women (c.f. SURVIVORS), but it's better to be open about it and talk it through and perhaps work your way to a more thoughtful response. Which is, I guess, what the OP intended.

But carry on baying 'racist' if it makes some of you feel better.

Just a thought on something that should be more fundamental to you: the fact that both schools are Catholic. Presumably for you, the fact they are Catholic schools is the most important thing? And shouldn't that mean that all pupils there will have this thing in common? Shouldn't religions bring people together rather than segregate them?

Nooka - my dc's school is 85% non white. It is totally mixed. Looking at the school photograph the student body looks overwhelmingly black African/West Indian but actually there is a huge mix - lots of mixed race children, a few Asian kids, lots of Somali children, lots and lots of WI children, a few white children (English and eastern European), a few Turkish kids, a few of Chinese children.

I do think it could be tough for children when they go into a school which is culturally homogeneous if they don't share that culture, ie, a white English child going into a school which is 95% Pakistani muslim say, in an area like Bradford, but most schools (in London anyway) are NOT like this - they might be mainly 'non-white' but they have children from a huge mix of backgrounds and social classes. They are a true 'melting pot'.

I think that racially diverse schools are great. More interesting, and I think more accepting of difference. I didn't want to move out of London because some of the areas we were looking at had no diversity (on paper anyway). I think the school that I attended as a child has improved as a result of having a wider social mix. But I also think schools which are dominated by any group are problematic, whether that is by families that have always "lived around here" and do not welcome "incomers", or by a particular ethnic group - and I think to have an impact on the other children the grouping would have to be meaningful - for example second generation Nigerians from a particular region all speaking the same dialect. My husband did teach in a London school with a very very high percentage of children coming from families originating in a particular part of Bangladesh, and it was tough for those that didn't.

But you can never tell who you will have more in common with. My children went to a nursery that was probably 80% West Indian (both staff and children) with about 15% Eastern European and 5% white English. The mums there were lovely, and we had some great conversations at parties (although I couldn't actually join in the we were the first Black family in xxx conversation). At the primary school - five minutes down the road, the school is at least 80% white, but I have found it harder to make friends, because I find I have less in common with the parents (although I am sure they are mostly equally lovely).

edam, had no intentions of making your teeth grate!

If it makes you feel better, it's probably the only word I "textspk" and I always write my text messages the "proper" way.

Was a bit by your comment, but hey ho guess no one is perfect

you weren't the only one, Mocca!