to feel uncomfortable being served by woman with tourettes that kept swearing at me?

[racmac]

I went to a well known high street store and was served by a lady who had tourettes. I have no problem with this or any of her ticks BUT she kept saying cunt and wanker - i dont use these words in front of my children so dont expect others to AIBU in expecting that she shouldnt be serving customers?

It was rather disconcerting to be told "thats £20.00 please, cunt, wanker"

Racmac

Hi

Im not sure why everyone is doubting my original post - why would i make it up? I certainly have better things to do. I have no idea about the other thread - its not me and i have never seen it.

This did happen and i think some people have gone way of my original point.

I did not suggest that this woman is not entitled to work, i did not suggest that she should be locked away in a cupboard, i did not at anytime say i treated her with anything less than the same respect i would shown to anyone else. I said i was shocked by the swearing in a shop by somebody serving me.

I have the upmost respect for her working in a place where she is exposed to peoples reactions on a daily basis. I applaud M & S for their employment policy however i have spent some time reading about tourettes and now know a bit more about it and realise that stress can increase these ticks etc - does putting her on a shop till where she is going to get strange looks and strange reactions (this is fact - not whether its right or wrong ) is this behaviour going to stress her out more and increase her ticks? Do M & S have a responsibility to ensure that this does not happen. I guess she is aware of how she feels and whether she is putting her self in that position.

I understand the reactions of those of you that are disabled and have disabled children but i do not think that making sarcastic or rdue comments or getting angry will change things. I have not said anything nasty at any point to you or your families - the way to change views is to educate and make your points absolutely but some comments made just get peoples backs up and they will then refuse to stop and listen to the very valid point being made.

I have always explained to my children about disabilities if they have asked and i would certainly never be nasty about anyones condition to anyone.

However im aware that my children will hear swearing from time to time - i dont like it and i certainly dont want my 3 year old walking around repeating it - how is that so wrong to understand. Any this is a mute point - they didnt hear and didnt repeat anything!

I am glad i started this thread and am amazed at how many replies and how quickly!

It has certainly made me stop and question myself and my reaction. Therefore we should applaud this woman for having the confidence and the balls to be able to do such a job when she would be aware of the publics reaction.

It's up to her whether or not she wants to work on a till. Some people react to a disability by becoming quite bold about it - it doesn't matter whether you would or not (and tbh if she's grown up with tourette's she may barely notice people staring at her) - she might want to work on the till. If she does then the DDA means the M&S cannot refuse her.

Now you can debate whether the DDA should allow a person who is socially undesirable in some way to work in a public place if they want to, but that's a different question.

You can't be a pilot if you can't see for reasons of health and safety. As I have already said the DDA does allow discrimination for disability on grounds of health and safety. Someone swearing and ticcing on a till does not come under health and safety.

By the time you've been around a few people with TS you find you don't notice the tics etc.

And to pick holes in the threat title. Someone with TS is not swearing at you. It's a tic. It is not something done with intent. People seem to have terrible trouble separating out behaviour done with intent and that done as part of a disability.

As mentioned earlier, very few people with TS have swearing tics.

I'm not picking to fight, but it does have the potential to become a health and safety issue.
I work in retail myself and we do have aggressive customers.
What would happen do you think if she ticced in front of a normally aggressive person who thought she was trying to insult them. She would end up assaulted!
I've seen people assaulted for looking funny at someone, let alone swearing.
So do you think that she could work in a call centre, where people cannot see her physical tics? I don't, because customers on the phone can't see the physical symptoms, only here that she's swearing at them. There would be many complaints, same as if any non-tourrettes person swore at a customer and she would lose her job.

in that case we better stop teens working on tills, when you consider the amount of "spotty teen" posts there are on mn.

Moston... IT WAS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

and an ignorant, offensive and inaccurate joke at that - as others have said swearing isn't even a particularly common tourettes symptom. I'ld rather my child was around someone who swore due to tourettes than who felt that sort of "joke" was acceptable.

Of course they will hear swearing. But possibly not quite such offensive words directed at them or their mother.

I am still in shock at Onager and Anna888's comments.

Tipsyfairy - but that is the aggressive customers fault, and surely she would have been trained, or have worked out a stragey, in what to do if that situation arose.

I was on the bus with my kids a few weeks ago with a man with tourettes. No one on the bus was offended by his constant swearing as they realised that he had a tic. Unless you are really stupid you would realise the difference. My kids and stepson (aged 3 & 18 months and 12) did look at him as he was shouting, but the words meant nothing to the little one as they are so young. The 12 year old asked after we had left the bus about the swearing and after a quick explaintation about the condition he asked no more.

None of them started swearing, DSS doesn't swear, but tell us off when we do (in the car!) and the 2 little ones are wouldn't have picked up any words in such a short time. And if they had I would have done what I do when they copy one of us, and said that is an adult word and then ignored them if they used it again.

so, whoever it was that said someone working in customer service should be able to "speak English without swearing," do you therefore think that companies would be allowed to refuse to employ someone who did not speak english? because then you enter into the relms of racism, and I certainly don't think that would be allowed.

I have, on numerous occasions, had help from staff in our local Asda who have spoken very little English. To the extent that making known what things I need to buy has been very difficult. I have also been served by someone in Sainsburys who could not read. Could it be argued that those people should be put to work somewhere they don't have to interact with the public?

How many people get frustrated when ringing a call centre in India and cannot understand the adviser?

But we can no more demand that people speak perfect english than we can demand that people exhibit all totally socially acceptable behaviors.

If I went into a shop and demanded service only from people who spoke English I would be branded a racist. So if I were similarly to object to someone's disability that would, IMO, make me a bigot, which fortunately I am not.

And why can't I be a pilot damn it! they have co pilots don't they? so h&s not an issue

wannaBe - it is perfectly legal for companies in England to insist that employees speak English, if they so wish.

Wannabe Our company policy is that all employees speak English in the work area's.

OP YABU She can't help swearing I would not of minded at all TBH I would of spoke with her about it as she must feel ways about her condition and it cannot be that easy having to deal with tourettes at least she is working and not claiming benefits

I have Tourette's without the swearing (but with throat noises, panting, winking, shrugging, and arm flapping, at its worst), my brother has Tourette's with the swearing and spitting, as well as others, and he has 70 people who work under him and they have large periods of intense stress at work so his employees get to hear a huge amount of swearing.

Given there are so many people here who are too delicate to hear swear words themselves, should my brother not be allowed to have employees?

And I have a 4 year old who has never thought it was okay to swear like his uncle without me even saying anything.

Like someone mentioned further up, nd children are social creatures. My son has copied me going "for fucksake" when I've lost my temper about something, but he innately knows that a normal conversation with spitting and fucking hells in it is somewhat different.

I'm glad there is a law which means the women in the op can do whatever job she wants to.

Well said SummatAnNowt

Those of you who would not want your small children exposed to Tourette-induced swearing, may I ask you to help me with a dilemma:

There is a gentleman in our local neighbourhood who has Tourette's and swears pretty constantly. He is frequently seen (nd heard) around the streets of ds's school and also often comes into the newsagent's while we're waiting to be served, so there can be no doubt that ds is being exposed to his bad language. Noone seems to be doing anything about it and the lady in the newsagent's seem quite happy to serve him.

What should I do? Should I take ds out of school and keep him confined to the house? Should I throw a green baize cloth over the gentleman's head. Or should I call the authorities and ask them to lock him up?

Hitherto I have chosen the simple path of explaining to ds that the gentleman is disabled, but I now understand that this is not enough. Please advise me, before my children get corrupted.

p.s. I thought ds seemed to understand this concept perfectly well even at the age of 3, but some posts on this thread have made me doubt my maternal instinct.

racmac you said

i certainly dont want my 3 year old walking around repeating it

Then teach your child that swearing is wrong. We would all like to think our dc's would never dream of swearing but lets face it in todays society they are going to hear more swearing and foul language than we would like them to.

If she and you are so precious maybe you should consider shopping online or moving to a secluded island where you won't encounter people with disabilities.

Should I keep dd at home from school too? She might corrupt the other children into walking with a limp.

Cory
Yes quickly hide away god forbid a child will see or hear someone who has a disability....OMG they may realise it is ok to accept EVERYONE for the person they are.

(not getting at you I hope you see that!!!)

Of course a company can insist that an employee speaks the same language as its customers! It's not remotely racist. II am delighted am

Cory

OMG how can you do this to other peoples children "shock" "Horror" omg I must go and lay down at the thought of this lol

For just that reason, Ruby, I don't believe that the story is true. M&S have obligations towards their staff, and the possible stress and threat of assault would surely mean that they would be failing this staff member if she was placed in the role of dealing with customers all ay long. Completely different if it is just a question of dealing with employees, cliwnts, or whatever who are aware of her tourettes.

I think the point is, RubyRioja, that it is for this lady to decide whether she wants to do this job or not. If it isn't much fun, then it's her responsibility to find another job that suits her better. AFAIK Tourette's does not interfere with your ability to make a reasoned decision.