to feel uncomfortable being served by woman with tourettes that kept swearing at me?

[racmac]

I went to a well known high street store and was served by a lady who had tourettes. I have no problem with this or any of her ticks BUT she kept saying cunt and wanker - i dont use these words in front of my children so dont expect others to AIBU in expecting that she shouldnt be serving customers?

It was rather disconcerting to be told "thats £20.00 please, cunt, wanker"

Racmac

I was a disabled person before I became the parent of a disabled child and had got fed up with discrimination well before dd came along. Now I have dd I am even more fierce about bigotry cos dd cannot speak and so can't defend herself againt discrimination.
Those who get bent out of shape cos their child hears swearing, how the fuck do you think it feels when other mothers pull their child away from yours? Or listen to adults calling your child names like 'spazz'' and 'cripple' and 'retard'?
I doubt I even notice swearing. Swearing doesn't hurt the listeniner. But poor dd gets to hear ND's calling her cruel names. Now that is bad.

cotedazur- i mean that in the jobs suggested she would still come across the public, all be it colleagues. or is just the paying public that should be protected from her?

well said mabanana

don't be ridiculous catchastar. All you have to be and teach your children to be is tolerant od 'differences. Whether that is skin colour, religion or disability.
I'm wondering where you live that you never encounter disabled poeple. We are everywhere.

f**K my attempt at name changing went wrong. I just hope mumsnet deletes my post or it just gets lost.

What have I done. Anyway prehaps I should be proud of having tourettes and educate the rest of the world.

I never swear, I am never rude. I do have strange shakes that I really can't help. I am not mad.

NMC,one in school, one in nursery and a newborn.

RN, no that isn't the problem but it is why many mums on here are not seeing it from the same starting point. Not everyone who is concerned or has expressed disagreement is a narrowminded bigot.

'I'm sorry you seem so hostile and angry to those of us who are a bit fazed by this kind of thing. But unfortunately the truth of the matter is, you're the unreasonable one to expect every person to be ok with this if they're not used to it. We don't all deal with this kind of thing everyday the way others do, therefore we get shocked at the unknown and we don't always understand.'

Why is it unreasoanble of me to expect equal and fair treatment from ND's? And expect them to be accepting? Why is it unreasoanble?

Myredcardigan - I have told teenagers off for swearing in the playground and I'll continue to do so because in my opinion it's showing off and naughty .

I would also be taken aback by a person with Tourettes on first meeting without prior knowledge that they had the condition.

However,I'd defend their right to do any job they're capable of without discrimination. That's just basic human decency surely?

"there is everything wrong with discrimination"

It is not discrimination to expect each person to be placed in a job that suits his abilities.

It is not discrimination not to hire an overweight lady to model lingerie, for example.

Exactly CoteDAzur

Don't fat people wear underwear?

Yes, but they look horrible in it so don't seduce other people into buying it .

I don't think the OP is unreasonable for being shocked - I would be too but I'd be more shocked at the person spitting and throwing toast at me in hospital! That surely goes against food hygiene regardless of the tourettes.

I also don't think that my 3 year old niece would understand when it was explained to her in this situation. She picks up everything at the moment and I would hate it if she went to nursery and repeated this behaviour.

I think it's tricky. I agree that having tourettes shouldn't prevent the person from working but I also question the suitability of this job although I don't think they should be hidden away.

M&S seem to have a good record for equality from what I've seen - in a store near me there is a member of staff who I think may be a pre op transexual... how would you explain to your kids why a man is dressed as a woman???

There's a lot of websites out there Anna8888 who would disagree with you....

Well no if they don't fit the underwear they couldn't do it. However, the person with Tourettes can do the job in my opinion because they can speak to the customer and handle transactions.
' Sales person' may involve more in your opinion and I believe customer service is important, but as it is a condition that can't be overcome and endangers nothing but sensibilities then the person can do their job with the support of the law.

ruddy - This is not about "protecting" anyone from her. It is about companies (understandably) wishing to employ suitable people for each job. And someone who can't control her language in public would not be a suitable candidate for a customer service job. There would be many other jobs for that person. That is all.

I worked with some people whose language would blister paint off the wall. They were very good at their jobs. Which were NOT customer service.

Well M&S obviously think she can do the job.

needmorecoffee I live near Glasgow so I can assure you, I see many people from many walks of life daily. I fail to see how all of a sudden I've become this monster who isn't tolerant of others.

I'm very tolerant, and very understanding, but that doesn't mean I always understand a persons disabilty. I used to work with autistic children afew years ago which I'll admit I found hard to do, and yes, upsetting at times. My only thing about this particular case was the fact that I personally wouldn't want my child hearing somebody swearing like that. I'm more than happy for this woman to work as she pleases, so long as it doesn't have a negative impact of my daughter. As far as I'm concerned, swearing like that is a negataive impact. I don't think that's me being precious, it's just what I believe. It's the way I have chosen to parent.

I don't have a problem with the swearing, TBH. Presumably you don't swear at home, and presumably if your DC goes to a nursery, and if any of the other DCs swore, they would be told that they are using "bad" words?

This has happened several times at my DS's nursery now school, he came home with a list of "bad" words, and apparently "stupid" and "nonsense" are on the banned list.

I don't think hearing the occassional "bad" word is going to harm our kids for life, so long as on the whole it's not encouraged (and at the same time not made a big deal of - you know what kids are like, they'll do exactly what you tell them not to).

What would be damaging for life, is encouraging attitudes that people with disabilities should be hidden away....

I think this is really hard and I can see why it's emotive, especially for NMC BUT I do agree with mabanana - people should do jobs that suit their abilities. The caveat to the DDA is that treatment should be equal UNLESS the worse treatment is justified.

J is a chair thrower, screamer and kicker/ biter. If he still does that when he's older, should he be allowed to do ANY job he wants? Probably not. I'd love it if he could, but it's about matching needs and abilities with the right thing.

J would freak out in a shop if she called him a cunt or a wanker and probably bite or throw something at them. Neither of them would be able to help that, but that's not a good situation. Not saying she can't do her job BUT part of her job is to interact with customers appropriately and, for a reason I totally accept she can't help because J has vocal tics that he can't control, she can't always do that.

Of course disabled people shouldn't be locked away, and I'm as vocal about J's rights as any other parent of a SN child, but I don't think suggesting that everyone can do everything and has to be allowed to is helpful.

What if a person has a learning disability - can they become a university lecturer under the DDA? We're all good at different things. I can't be a Maths teacher because I'm crap at Maths. I can't be an artist because I can't draw or paint. I don't think it's disablist to suggest that this lady could be better suited to another job.

I actually have done Anna - I said 'yes it is a man - he likes to wear women's clothes' I think they took it in the context of their dressing up and nothing more was said. If you don't make a big deal out of it they don't.

But then, NMC, you said earlier that I shouldn't explain your DD's disability to my DCs because she isn't a 'teaching tool'. Yet, as I said another disabled woman thanked me for honestly explaining her disability to my DCs there and then. It is sometimes dfficult to get it right.

I have explained to DS that a child we met who has autism had a brain that worked differently from his. That the boy couldn't understand some things as well as him and probably saw some other things much clearer than he did. I am friendly with a woman whose DD is autistic and I know for a fact she hates any reference toher DD's brain being different.

Most people are not ignorant. Most people do believe in equal opportunities. That is not diluted by thinking that perhaps this particular job was not suited to that particular woman.

Really tired, of course nobody wants you sacked. A physical tic or even most verbal tics would never mean that someone couldn't be a great teacher (or a wonderful customer service person either). My ds has Aspergers and wriggles, flaps and chews. I have high hopes for him!
But this very specific tic (extreme uncontrollable bad language) does seem to me inappropriate for a job where I would have thought that not swearing was one of the few real requirements of the job.

How can swearing have a negative impact on your child? You explain to them it is wrong in most situations, that this lady has a condition and that you expect them not to mimic her behaviour.

Fgs the woman isn't working as a diplomat she's serving on a till in marks and spencers. The last time I checked I don't think it was ever considered a life or death type job.

Now, perhaps if I had a condition that caused me to swear uncontrollably I would think twice about working with the public. Not because of the swearing but because of the public reactions (which are quite apparent from this thread alone). However, this woman obviously doesn't have issue with her condition and therefore if others have issue with it it's their problem and not her's.

And one other thing...

It might be illegal to discriminate against the disabled in the work place but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been discriminated against - have had a potential employer tell me they couldn't employ me because of my disability. I could have taken them to court had I so chosen but decided life was too short and as it happened I knew people who worked for the same company and turns out I had a lucky escape.

But I would bet money that employers discriminate against people with disabilities without that being apparent. I imagine it's easily done in fact.

So bearing all that in mind, how easy do you think it is to get through a job interview when you're using the c word on a regular basis? First impressions and all that? I'm 100% positive there are employers out there who will have not given this woman a job because of her condition.

I wonder how many jobs she applied for before she got a job at m&s? and how many she was turned down for.

When I first started looking for jobs the DDA didn't exist. and before I got my first job I applied for 168 jobs. And most of them rejected me because I am blind.

Think about that when you start deciding where someone should and shouldn't be allowed to work.

Most people with disabilities don't have that wide a choice in the first place.

Obviously m&s aren't ignorant like some people on this thread.