To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

Excellent post VinegarTits.... I wonder if you'll get an answer?!

I have admitted my mistake!!!

YABU. You are just sounding rather patronising.

Sorry, must type faster

Hambo - I find your post both moronic and offensive.

OP - find something else to worry about. Those mothers have made that choice for numerous reasons that have nothing at all to do with you.

FWIW I can afford to not work if I so chose, but in a couple of months DD will start nursery and I will go back to my career which I love, which makes me who I am and which will allow me to be the person I want to be. DD on the other hand will have a varied life rather than sitting at home with me all day climbing the walls. But that's my choice.

I feel sorry for children with narrow minded mums.

As for my own DCs, I've obviously loved them differently at different times because I've used all sorts of childcare. Luckily, there are many options out there to suit my varying moods.

ok

1. slightly sad - yes your ds is lucky, and you are very lucky - excedding lucky - to be able to spend your time in such a pleasant way. I hope you appreciate this.
2. there are good childminders and less good childminders. good nurseries and less good nurseries.
3. yesterday at my children's nursery, ds:

had a music session with a specialist teacher who comes in every week made gingerbread men and decorated them played in the garden with the amazing play equipment did digging and planting in the veggie patch had storytime made a drawing of a digger and did some printing and probably loads of other stuff I don't know about dd: went to the library for rhyme time played in the garden made spiders out of eggboxes and pipecleaners had a teddy bear's picnic

I feel really, really sorry for them both. It must have been hell.

Hi My DD goes to nursery from 8.30am to 5.30pm 3 days a week. I like working part time and I like her going to nursery.

The nursery is excellent and they have a different theme for every month of the year and also the different seasons. She certainly doesn't sit in one room all day - her class ( of 15 kids ) have two huge rooms between them - they are aged 2n half to 3n half - they do puzzles, crafts, computor work, singing, dancing, movement ( sand etc ) Painting, glitter, sticking, make cakes and jellies. Reading, writing. They have an outdoor playgroud with big toys like cars and trucks and trikes and it is set in a huge park and they have a huge enclosed piece of grass too ( well little field ). They go on walks round the park and feed the ducks and at the moment do things like collect leaves and paint them and make pic's out of acorns etc. They can't go on the playground equipment cos of H&S.

They have one on one time and do things in small groups of 3 - 4 like reading etc. They do french at 3?!!!!

There is a rota up everyday for what they are doing and will be eating and all the food is home ccoked by the cook there.

I know that in all honesty if I just stayed at home I doubt I would be able to cram in as much as they do in one day and too be honest it is nice that she does all the messy stuff there like painting feet and throwing glitter everywhere - I think it is more fun for her doing it with a load of other kids the same age. I chose nursery over CM as I think it is safer for her to be in one place - it unerved me to think of her in someone's back garden or in someone elses car etc.

On our 4 days together at home we have a day where i have to do the cleaning but she loves helping me and another day we go to a playgroup in a church for a couple of hours and other day we do shopping and walk into town.

DD went here at 11 months - I had a year off work with her, she's nearly 3 now. When next baby arrives I will pull her out of nursery as can't afford it but then she can go to the pre-school in mornings - nursery is brilliant for both us as I get my work life for me and she gets her social and educational values early, but it's only 3 days a week and then we get the 4 other days being Mummy and daughter and me teaching her all she needs to know too. After next baby I'm not going back to work so I will work really hard to find good playgroups and mum and tots groups - I believe i could do that now, you don't need a nursery to teach your kids all the stuff they do, it's just that it suited my situation at time as had to go back to work. I'm lucky that the nursery is good - it's quite expensive though £45 a day.

That was an interesting thread

I agree it is hard to talk about this without upsetting people, and I am sorry to have upset anyone. this is actually the first time I have written down in MN what I actually feel, becasue usually I am to worried about hurting others feelings.

Re the argument about only the wealthy having children - no of course that should not be the case. I personally moved to a much smaller house in a very unfashionable part of the country so that I could look after my baby. I have a very tight budget indeed.

It was not my intention to say that going to nursery was rubbish - far from it, many of my friends use them and I think they sound very good, their children seem to enjoy them.

My point is aimed at those who put their children in nursery at weeks old, all day (8 - 6) 5 days a week.

I really don't know why you would have a baby in these circumstances.

I am being honest here and I am aware that I will be making people who are in these circumstances annoyed and want to poke me in the eye....however they would perhaps (definately) want to question my lifestyle choices... (no money as I have no job, no financial independance from husband etc, crap house).

OK, so I've just asked my DCs (10 and 12)what they remember about their pre-school days. I suppose I wanted reassurance that WE (that'll be DH and I, not just me getting the blame) didn't traumatise our kids with the decisions we made. DH works full-time, and I worked 2.5 days, recently rising to 3, and so both kids went to nursery for 2 days,(, 8 til 6! ) with MIL doing the extra half. I ought to say that I originally had them at a nursery "chain" as babies, where it did seem a bit 'school-y' and I didn't want that for them when they were toddlers, so I moved them as soon as they could walk, to go to one based in a family home on a farm, where there was a huge emphasis on a home-y atmosphere lots of outdoor play (this was before this was standard practice).

Their memories? In no particular order: playing games with Dad, feeding the ducks when out shopping with Nanna, going up the field to see the horses at kindergarten, playing in the sunny room (at kg)in the big tunnel, playing with their friends. Actually, the majority of their memories in this context, all of them happy ones, were from nursery, although they were there for much less than half the time.
In fact, they're still doing the "do you remember when...." bit right now!

SO, conclusion, their experiences at nursery were happy ones. So too were there experiences at home with me or DH or MIL. OK, you could argue that we had the best of both worlds, but it didn't seem like that at the time. It was a hard slog, and I do remember clearing just 50 quid a month at one point.
Yes, they're outgoing, confident types, but they could have been like that anyway; DH and I both are.
I don't have a problem with a straight question: why did you make the choices you did re: childcare (although many don't actually have a choice), but there was a definite inference from the OP (where is she, by the way?) that hers was the better path. And sorry, but it did come aross as smug.

There are those mums who work and wish they did`nt have to but have no choice

And thoses SAHM who wish they could work

Personally through choice I am a SAHM drive a old car and not the latest clothes.But its my choice

I have never done the singing groups tumble tots etc etc.

But if you do have a choice then good for you

There is no wrong or right here

Mothers have always worked. Before the industrial revolution it was in the fields. Post-industrial revolution, the kids were in the factory too, or the mothers did piece work. The idea of SAHM who do no paid work at all is a relatively recent invention. Largely as a status thing for middle class Victorians. "See how successful I am, my wife is idle."

The upper classes, of course, sent their kids away - boarding out in the village from babyhood to early childhood, then boarding schools. Earlier than that they were sent off to be trained in another aristocratic house.

GAAH! I meant their experiences. Don't report me to pedant's corner, please!

You know i could get angry at the ignorance of the op and hambo, but i would, i would seriously like answers to my questions?

Hambo are you saying there is no point to my ds existence? do you suggest i give him away to someone who can parent him full time?

OP suggest some ways i can improve my ds happiness please, obvioulsy he must be miserable so i trow some in the pot for you to choose one, so maybe i should...

• Give up my job and go on benefits, let the tax payer support us
• Drag xp back kicking and screaming and make him support me so i can SAH
• Give my ds up for adoption to a childless couple who can give him a better life than me

How about you suggest some too?

I'm not sure whether this adds anything to the debate or is just irrelevant and irritating but - I'm watching this thread with horrid fascination interest, because I started out as a militant SAHM - no childcare for me, I wanted to be Earth Mother and exorcise my own horrible childhood

I felt guilty about not working and felt slighted and scorned for being a lazy fat cow sat at home not 'contributing', and nothing I did with the children was good enough

I work part-time now, ds1 is at school and ds2 goes to preschool 5 mornings a week and will start school in Jan. I LOVE my job, I can't believe I have it, I earn a pittance and I couldn't care less, it's a new lease of life for me and I wouldn't give it up fo all the tea in China

BUT now ds2 kicks up and lip-wobbles about going to the childminder (he goes for 4.5 hours maximum, I only work afternoons and finish at 4!) and I recently missed a school Harvest assembly because I had to work - the school treated me like the only hard-assed neglectful career bitch in the world, and I feel AWFUL when ds2 cries about going to the childminder

it's a weird feeling!

so I don't know what 'right' is, if it exists at all, but I do know that as a woman with small children you're walking around with a target painted on your forehead, whatever decisions you make.

"Re the argument about only the wealthy having children - no of course that should not be the case. I personally moved to a much smaller house in a very unfashionable part of the country so that I could look after my baby. I have a very tight budget indeed."

Wow lucky for you that you had the means to move to a different part of the country. A lot of people are already stuck in the poverty trap in the very worst parts of the country - there is nowhere else for them to move to to "downsize" and save money. These are people who have cut back everyway they possibly can, and still struggle to get by. This isn't a small number of people, it's a MASSIVE amount of people.

And in the current economic climate even those that are lucky enough to have a house to "downsize" from (I don't know many people in RL who could downsize anyfurther than what they already have.......) can't do it as they won't be able to sell their house.

Excellent post clam.

hambo - I think it's good that you have apologised for causing offence, but you are still skirting around the issue and haven't responded to VinegarTits.

So - you could afford to downsize to a smaller house in an unfashionable area. What about those who do that and still cannot afford the luxury of a parent home all day? Should these people not be allowed to have babies?

Hambo my ds went to nusery full time when he was 10 weeks old, should i have avoided that by having an abortion?

Greensleeves I don't believe there is a "universal" right way tbh. Parents should do what is right for them - if that means somehow managing to have a SAHP (not always possible due to financial constraints), going out to work full or part-time for sanity or the money, or whatever - if it works for each individual family I don't think it matters TBH.

Hambo I actually agree with you that I find it hard to see very small babies at nursery. One of my good friends did just that, 6 weeks old and in nursery. From the outside, I wouldn't have liked it, but I knew that her partner had left her literally holding the baby and she had no choice in the matter. Just knowing this one story, I try not to judge (as she was judged) as I don't know the circumstances and its none of my business anyway.

I don't think SAHMs or WOHMs are any better than the other. The fact that we all love our kids makes us all good mothers. As I said in an earlier post - its up to us all to make the best decisions we can, given what we've got. Or something like that anyway.

I sort of agree with findtheriver (despite the fact that I am a sahm). I was good at my job, but I never liked it that much. I hate routine, I like spontaneity, I like to be in charge of my own day, I hate having to "toe the company line". Staying at home with ds gives ME a level of freedom (which I am lucky to have and enjoy) that suits my personality better than having to sit at a desk all day with an endless "to do" list that I don't care about that much. I am fortunate that financially I don't have to work although I can pick and choose ad hoc "work" projects that appeal to me. I certainly not the only person that could stimulate and interest my ds and he doesn't get the same level of interaction with other children that lo's at nursery get - despite wanting them, we have not managed to have children close together, so he does not have siblings to play with.

Being at home, for me, is about having the opportunity to do stuff with ds (I am not really worried about ds painting in the house or making a mess because I am around to clean it up). I certainly do not think less of my RL friends who work and place their children in good nurseries - they are people who like to work/need to work and spend every non-working moment with their dc's and love them as much as I do. I have one friend who works because constant child-care does her head in, and I can understand that - looking after kids is hard and not everyone is suited to it - but she still loves and cares for her kids and she put an enormous effort into finding the right nursery environment for her dc's. She is more fulfilled and so she enjoys her kids more than before she started working. Her kids are 3 and 1.

Anyway, I would hate to think that my friends, working or otherwise, made critical judgements about my parenting choices. Or that they felt that because I like and am able to choose to be at home that being a mother is the only thing that defines me. Fortunately in RL most friends tend to be more multi-faceted than these debates on MN sometimes make out...

Having kids is hard work and most of us try to do our best for them.

What particularly f**ks me off about this thread is how much people are happy to slag off others choices. The fact is that we are all different and facing different problems/issues.

The inital post from slightysad (by name and by nature?)was not a simple enquiry about the relative benefits of different childcare options. It was also written in judgement of others who have made different choices for whatever reason. I mean slightysad was hardly subtle!
Its ok to have opinions but the whole post is laden with superiority and no doubt intended to provoke reaction.

My view is that if kids are happy, active and loved then thats what matters.

my DTs went to nursery 7.30 - 5ish, 5 days a week and loved it, they went out for walks, had an outside play area, visited the fire stations etc and because I was working and not spending all day with them, I enjoyed the weekends that we spent together as did they

Vinegar - If I were you reading my post I would think I was a knobber, and rightly so. You sound like a great mum and I am sorry to be such a generalising poster. I can't really explain how I feel, I think I have been influenced by some of my friends. They have stayed in their jobs, ( very good jobs) but have chosen to put their babies in nursery full time. I suppose it is women (and I guess men) who choose to put their babies away so young and full time that confuses me.

If you are in a situation where there are limited choices then of course people must do their best.

"They just hate to admit that they could have gone out to work and their children would be exactly the same!!"

I don't think thats completely true. Nursery is better for some children than others. I don't think DS's day nursery was the best place for him to be. I think for him being in a room full of children, moving rooms every 6 months (so different staff and carers) was confusing. Having said that I know children who went to the same nursery who were a little more socially mature who thrived and loved all the joining in.

I also know 1 or 2 lovely children who have been going to nursery full time since 6 months or earlier and do not feel in the least bit sorry for them. However, it is no more true to say that all children will do well at nursery than it is to say that chidlren who go to nursery should be pitied.

(by the way, I think the OP said she was going out)