To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

I think all forms of childcare can be excellent. And all can be crap. And that there's a huge difference between privately feeling sorry for children who don't have the option you personally prefer, and starting a whole damn AIBU thread on it.

re the op

childminder vs nusrery is personl choice as with life

i prefer nurserys

ds is home with me and a new baby and i LOVE his life but we do bollocks all organised activity - that's what he goes 2 days to nursery for

I love the way all the smug housewives start with 'I'm not smug but' ...

Most disingenuous

notanotter - have you misunderstood - they are not paying £1 an hour, they are left with that after paying childcare - and thats approaching 40 pounds a week for fulltime so £160 over the month. Thats a lot of difference to a family economy.

no i did understand northernlurker

I - perhaps naively do not think people work to gain £1 an hour

if they travel etc thus incurring costs

if they DO and i am wrong then other cost cutting should come first

Notahappyotter - if you read my earlier post, you'll see that for a while, childcare costs took up ALL of my salary. And I worked to keep my hand in with my career. So I guess in your opinion that makes me a bad mother
Well - I can live with your opinion - I have three bright well adjusted kids and a great career which pays me handsomely now - so frankly I think we've done fine!

And yes, I know a lot of people who earn very little after taking out childcare costs. If you are in a situation where one income doesn't cover your living costs, then you both need to work. A huge chunk of that second income may be swallowed by childcare costs, but if you need the extra bit that's left over, then you have no option. Is that really so hard to understand

no findtheriver -i commend you for it

moreover i commend you for saying you were working to 'keep your hand in'

I am shit at going to work and better at staying home wtih kids

i commend a bi of frankness in this argument

just glanced through a few posts on here. my DS was in nursry, as OP described and i do not feel the need to justify it to her or anyone else. OP, i feel you are not slightly sad at all, what do you care how other people parent their children? we're not talking about child abuse here. save your 'compassion' for children that really need it.

and what's wrong with dragging your kid round the shops every now and again? [hmm) i think it's a positive thing. children must learn that in addition to all the lovely things like visits to aquariums that they must also do stuff of someone else's choice and take it with good grace. i wonder who's got the decision making power in OP's household.

i do not need the

£1 and hour i will continue to debate it

benefits are available for those on the lowest incomes

it's about what is important to one...

not drinking alcohol or turnign the heat on are ways of saving money
Not paying for tv channels another way.

I am saying i would choose these options over FULL TIME childcare for £1 an hour bring home

I think thats fair enough

Oh dear - well then perhaps you would like to digest this:

When I have paid childcare I am roughly £300 per month better off than if I was not working. Which is nice and very helpful to us but I don't work for that particularly - and I am bloody lucky to be able to say that I know. I work for the reasons I outlined below - are they good enough reasons for you?

However there are many, many working people for whom what they are left with is a VITAL part of their economy. They will lose their home and everything they have without it. How dare you say thats 'not enough' That's not naive on your part - thats judgemental and unpleasant.

Well, you wanted frankness in the debate notahappyotter..... if you think for most people it's about saying no to a few extra telly channels, or not buying alcohol then you are very far removed from reality.

A lot of people need to work because otherwise they will LOSE THEIR HOME OR NOT BE ABLE TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN!!!!

What part of that do you not understand?

I couldn't afford a decent day nursery 8-6 anyway, I don't earn anything like enough. I can just about afford our childminder but it doesn't leave me much change. I work BECAUSE I LIKE iT [shoot me]

but in all honesty I wouldn't have put my 12 week old in a day nursery 8-6 every day either, even if I could afford to, so I see a bit of what the OP was saying.

I must admit that the OP did come over as rather smug but she's entitled to her opinion and to feel sad for children in a different situation to hers, just as you have all expressed your opinions. It's called freedom of speech. I really don't think that someone saying their opinion deserves snide comments and the type of abuse she's received from some of these posts. The children who are at nursery all day every day might be as happy as larry but that doesn't stop me from feeling sorry for them that they're away from their parents for such large amounts of time. All nurseries are obviously different (my dd loves hers) but as I said earlier, the nursery where I worked was just one room and the care the full-timers received certainly wasn't a home-from-home, hence why I left. I felt sorry for those children and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

findtheriver - it's odd isn't it? WOTH's look like other mothers but apparently they are alcholic harpies who watch telly and overheat their homes (despite being out at work all day) and leave their children in the den of neglect and vice that is a day nursery. How much better it would be for them to stay at home on benefits and take their children to the farking aquarium!

"1 and hour i will continue to debate it

benefits are available for those on the lowest incomes"

yes but often not enough to cover outgoings even when they've cut down on everything they can cut down on. I was extremely lucky a few years ago when we had cut down to the bare minimum and were still struggling financially that I managed to fit a night shift job around my exH's job meaning I didn't have to pay for childcare. Our combined salaries wouldn't have given us much help with childcare costs, but we were in a lot of debt (some of it our own "fault" - a business that failed, some of it not - Powergen fucking up our DD's) and I HAD to work.

If you honestly believe that benefits for those on low income are enough to adequately help the working poor then I'm not sure what planet you're living on.

op could have asked innocuous question "why chose nursery" she chose to dispense pity and speculate that children are cooped up when this isnt the case

NL SAHMing and being on behefits aren't synonymous as you know, that was an unworthily cheap shot

GS - I do know that but as notanotter suggested it is an option it got caught up in my post - which is all one moderately sized cheap shot tbh.

Ok i will explain my situation and then can you please suggest how i can do things differently to stop you feeling sorry for my ds?

I got pg, the father fucked off.
No problem because i have a well paid job so can support a child on my own
My maternity leave lasted 10 weeks, after that i could either go back to work or strugle to pay bills on SMP
I went back to work, full time, ds started nursery
He is now a well adjusted, bright, happy 2 yr old
Has been going to nussery full time for the last 2 years, i dont use a child minder because it would cost to much, and the nursery he goes to is right next door to my mums office so she can get him if ever there is an emergency
The nursery do all sort of activities, even takes them out for walk around town(with my permision of course) he loves it, there has never been a time when he has not wanted to go, the staff are wonderful with him
Do i feel guilty? of course i fucking do, i would like nothing better than to be a SAHM, but who would support us?
Do i feel sad for my ds? no i fucking dont, he is happy and loved and we do plenty of activities at weekend, like walking in the Lake District, going swimming, feeding the ducks etc
I started a new job 5 mths ago and as soon as i have been there for long enough i am going to apply to work part time as i now earn enough to be able to live comfortably on part time wages, but ds will still go to nursery 4 days a week

So, now can you tell me what i am doing wrong in your eyes? you feel sorry for my ds so what do you suggest? i would like an answer to this post please.

I know NorthernLurker - tis very strange isn't it? This assumption that working parents just need to put in a bit more effort into seeing where they can make cutbacks, get rid of a few telly channels, stop buying Gucci and Prada and cut back to only 3 foreign holidays a year... and then we could all be nice and happy at home all day!!

And obviously those of us who, shock horror, don't even need to work, but do it because, gulp, dare I say it, we have interesting jobs and are good at them and enjoy them -well, obviously we're the spawn of the devil!!

ScottishMummy, it isn't always the case but it is sometimes! I worked in a nursery which had one room and a small garden. We were never allowed to take the children "out" for a walk or to the park. The most adventurous thing was walking around the car-park looking for wildlife . The OP asked if she was unreasonable to "feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day". In my situation, I felt sorry for the children that were at the nursery all day. Btw, this was a well respected nursery with a substantial waiting list. Some nurseries are lovely and some are not and the full-timers at my nursery clearly weren't as well-catered for as some!

VinegarTits - I think the phrase

'He is now a well adjusted, bright, happy 2 yr old'

says it all. I'm convinced that there is a minority of SAHMs who desperately try to convince themselves that their own children must be better adjusted, or happier, or whatever. They just hate to admit that they could have gone out to work and their children would be exactly the same!!
If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford to stay at home and you choose to do it, then fine - no problem. Just be honest - it's because YOU want to, and that might be for all sorts of reasons - perhaps enjoy going to toddler groups, baby gym and those sorts of activities, perhaps you feel you would get very stressed by combining parenting and getting out to work, perhaps like notanotter you are 'shit at going to work'. But don't try to convince the rest of us that your children are going to be somehow better because it ain't true!!

'I think all forms of childcare can be excellent. And all can be crap. And that there's a huge difference between privately feeling sorry for children who don't have the option you personally prefer, and starting a whole damn AIBU thread on it. '

exactly MotherInferior, and then not even bother coming back to the thread....

well, the not coming back to tthe trhead...

if she posted without malice, and thought this was a normal parenting site, she's probably a bit shell-shocked!

Findtheriver - I have met a minority of sahms who have made it quite plain that they do think exactly that. The only way I've found to challenge it is to describe myself as ' a part time mother' - that is plainly what they are thinking but when you call them on it they backtrack like Lewis Hamilton in reverse gear and say 'oh no, of course you're not, you're a mother all the time aren't you' Too right I am.