To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

We also tried to ensure we took holidays when we could provide cover between us as a network.

mytether: "Oh and if a toddler is bored when he has toys to play with it suggests he has little imagination and ability to play on his own. "

Eh?

Ho do you come to that conclusion?

Maybe he is just bright and wants to be stimulated?

'You are very misguided about childminders and quite ignorant.'

My nursery cost me £100 a week full time, if you can find me a CM cheaper than that i will show you my arse

To right the OP hit a raw nerve, if i made sweaping atatements about all children of sahm's being sad, and what kind of example does a parent set who doesnt got to work, etc etc you would slam me too mytetherisending, dont deny it

Bright children need to learn to use their imagination. Placing too much emphasis on formal learning, numeracy, literacy etc can stifle imagination.

No because IF you read one of my earlier posts I have already said that working parents set a good example and instill a good work ethic into children

VT I don't believe its 100 without being subsidised in some way or maybe you live in a cheaper part of the uk. As I said some are cheaper and some are more expensive depending on the area.

Even if my CM negotiates her summer holiday, she still takes a week at xmas and a week at easter. I can take holiday then but not everyone can.

I'm not criticising CMs - far from it! Obviously they are entitled to holidays. I was just pointing out there are downsides to CMs which is why some people may choose a nursery over a CM (leaving aside the bit about being able to find a CM who has availability, that you like, is able to do the hours you want etc). And on that last bit about hours, I could only find 2 CMs in my area who would do 8-6. Which for most people who have to work a ft day, is what you need in terms of hours

Nurseries charge for am/pm at a flat rate. CMs charge an hourly rate so if you don't use all the pm i.e. 1-6 you still pay the same price at nursery. At a CM you pay for what you use. Obviously more cost effective.

Yes i live in a cheap part of the uk, it is not subsidised in any way (would you like the name and number? you can ring up and check?) it is a small privatley run nursery in the grounds of a social enterpirse (which my mum runs) the reason it is cheap is because we live in a deprived area, if i didnt live here i would not be able to afford to go to work and support my dc

Slightlysad - I see you're home from the aquarium. Piss off out again, love.

Choccynutty - I would never in a million years put my children in a nursery where you work - you're illiterate.

StepfordKnife - I'm tempted to tell you to go get a job to alleviate your very obvious frustration... but I think with your ignorant views you might struggle with the interview

I was registered for overnight care which no nursery will provide and also would have covered weekends if required to accomodate shift workers who were single parents

To the OP SlightlySad, I feel slightly sad that you feel you have to namechange to start a thread like this which you know will be controversial. The excuse about not wanting to be remembered for this thread seems to indicate you don't have strength of conviction in your views. Why not be remembered for this thread? Perhaps you recognise the inherent smuggery and flaw in your views even if you choose to deny it to yourself.

As for genuinely wanting people's opinions, you have had more than 600 of them. Did you actually read them? You will find that even if the posts were not specifically addressed to your OP, you can pick out the gist of what people are saying about nurseries and CM.

You are still feeling sorry for children who don't leave the nursery building. How many of us have already corrected that misconception yet you choose to ignore them. You cannot expect every single poster who uses nurseries to be about our nursery and their wonderful outside activities. I did not say anything about this because other posters had already spoken on my behalf. This is not a poll.

As for a nursery v. homebased setting, I know both bubble and I and have addressed this point. Just search for the word 'institution' on this thread. It was not specifically answering your OP, but does go into our thoughts about institutional v. home-based settings.

I will add another point about why i don't like home-based settings which Thomcat (I believe) has already mentioned. I dislike the idea of one-to-one care behind closed doors. I like the transparency and checks-and-balances of institutionalised care. Both my dcs were high maintenance babies and knowing how demanding they could be, the last thing i wanted was to foist them on someone else who had no support, when I myself did not savour the idea of being with them for such a length of time during the day. More hands make light work.

As it turned out, nursery was perfect for my dcs' extroverted temperament - with the socialisation on tap (good point, Athene), lots of shiny toys, lots of cuddles, healthy food they would not otherwise eat at home. When I ask ds 2 who gave him the cute stamp at the back of his hand and run through each of the names of the carers, that little spark in his eye and wry smile when he hears their names is good enough evidence to me that he feels loved and cherished by all of them. As Calm has said before, having lots of loving people (or aunties or grandparents or play group mothers, if you prefer) adds to childrens' lives and is a fantastic way to experience the world.

I am answering your OP BTW.

Fair enough VT but it is for most parts of the country cheaper to have a CM.

Good for you

I need care from 7.30 till 5.30 mon to fri, the nursery i use is cheap, my mums office is right need door, so in an emergency, ie i get stuck in a traffic jam, she can collect him, the staff are wonderful, the children have a great time, it suits me down to the ground, so i dont need to use a CM, but thats just my personal preference, there is no gaurentee that my ds would be better off with a CM. He certainly couldnt be any happier than he already is.

'Fair enough VT but it is for most parts of the country cheaper to have a CM'

May well be, i dont know i havent checked for the rest of the country, if you do a search against CM and nurseries in my area, nurseries are cheaper. What was your point? was it just to try an prove me wrong

Findtheriver - do you have to be so rude? Have I touched a nerve? I am off out again in a minute, but not to the aquarium - couldn't go to the same place twice in a week

blueshoes - yes, I read a lot of the posts. Not all yet though.

I agree with Athene's post. Children do benefit from some more 'school-like' experience. But not 50 hours per week! My DS2 has two sessions per week (5 hours total), as did my DS1 at this age.

I might step away from this thread now. If you think that your nursery is a good place, then fine. But if your child is in a nursery FROM WHICH HE DOESN'T LEAVE THE GROUNDS very often for 50+ hours per week, then I will continue to feel that they're not having the best upbringing. That doesn't mean that other children aren't in a worse situation, of course it doesn't. But on a sliding scale, I fail to believe that 50+ hours in one room or building can be near the top either.

slightlysad - I think you've touched a lot of nerves - have you actually read the thread?

Like many others, I find it really odd that you decide to name change and start a thread like this. I'm sure you don't feel 'slightly sad' at all. Your next name should be 'slightly bored' because I bet that's why you started the thread!

slightlySmugandOuttoPolishMyOwnEgo suits you better me thinks

Find the river.... as much as I agree that there is no right or wrong (within reason) in child rearing I would add if you're looking for graduates at a nursery you may be disappointed!!

mytether: "Bright children need to learn to use their imagination. Placing too much emphasis on formal learning, numeracy, literacy etc can stifle imagination." and "Oh and if a toddler is bored when he has toys to play with it suggests he has little imagination and ability to play on his own. Constant stimulation at nursery can do this."

I believe you are misguided when you say this. Not all toddlers like toys or have the ability to play by themselves at that age. It is a function of temperament (I have read a lot of mn threads about this btw), rather than a reflection of intelligence or a result of nursery, lol. My dd did not play by herself - she wants to be with people all the time and never played with toys unless I was actively participating in her play. Perhaps I could say that toddlers who play with toys on their own have an emotional deficit and are easily satisfied with material things - which is patently wrong. My ds on the other hand, is much more into toys from a young age.

Nursery suited both of them. My dd had lots of children around her. Ds had his toys and 'beep beeps'. I will also add that both my dcs generally played better at nursery than at home. So perhaps that is why you think independent play is the norm from your experience of cm-ing.

BTW, it is great you provide afterhours cm-ing for shift workers. There is definitely a gap in the market for this, particularly as a lot of shift workers are in the public services like nursing, policework etc

WifeandMotherof4 - I wasn't suggesting nursery workers all need to be graduates. But a grasp of basic literacy might be useful!

Oh I dont know- increasingly graduates do have a presence in childcare as Managers now hold relevant degrees often, and even those like my sister who do not are either studying for one (no mean feat on top of a 7-6 job with a child herself) or functioning at that level anyway.

My take on this- if I had to send my kids to Nursery (and I have done, is only since ds4 i've been a sahm, although ds3 was at a Cm- other 2 went to nurseries) I'd be sad, i'd miss the contact with my little ones but I have also learned they wouldnt give a damn, a good nursery is something little kids adore and they don't miss out by being in one.

Besisdes there can't be a one size fits all approach becuase there's too big a range of people and every Mum had different reasons for working; mine was mney but now that my choices are removed (Sn kid issues) I amr ealising how little I valued the choice that I ahd before, and how good the opportunity to work part time when ds4 gets to 18 months would be. Sanity saving, I suspect.

FTR...I should have used !!

It is different with second dcs anyway as they have their sibling to entertain them sometimes as well as parents. TBH I was just getting sick of VT being agressive to everyone and wanted to hit back. Obviously some children play better by themselves than others, however, IME if you provide something they are interested in for them to do they should be able to play for a while without parental interaction constantly iyswim.
Thanks for the compliment on hours- I did this because as a nurse with a DH working away lots my CM couldn't do late care etc which was a nightmare as I live 5hrs from family and close friends. Had only been on the camp 9mths and worked so didn't really know anyone to ask to help out.

"IMHO if you have to leave your child in childcare for that many hours per day, then why don't you leave them in a more home-based setting?"

because:

a) nannies are crazily expensive
b) MOST cms do not provide the extended hours that many working parents need (i tried and tried to find a cm who could take my dd from 8-6, and failed); plus they take holidays; plus MANY (i am not saying all) cms live in accommodation which i would consider unsuitable for my children.

i am sure there are wonderful, caring, cheap and always open for business childminders (like all of the ones on mumsnet) i just couldn't find them.

there is a lot of research showing that children under 1 do better (in many respects) in a more individualised care setting. some of this research is govt sponsored. yet the govt does nothing to promote and provide that type of care. now that would be a more interesting and more constructive debate.