To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

Have only read the title.Dear God.
I feel slightly sad for the parents, such as myself who have to work to pay the bills and dont have a choice about putting...oh whats the point?
Must go anyway.My poor chidminded kids are sitting in the corner busily mourning their lost child hood or some such.

slightlysad: "But if your child is in a nursery FROM WHICH HE DOESN'T LEAVE THE GROUNDS very often for 50+ hours per week, then I will continue to feel that they're not having the best upbringing."

To that I say, "But if your child is cared for by a parent in his home where he does not get to go out because his parent is too busy doing the housework or lazy or depressed or has substance abuse issues, then I will continue to feel they're not having the best upbringing."

If you define it so narrowly as care in one room, yes of course it sounds shit. The more relevant question is how realisitic is your assumption - this you choose to read the posts selectively. There are horrible nurseries and horrible homecare situations. No one is denying that. In fact, between one room care in a nursery and one room care at home, I would prefer the nursery because at least there are more people and toys.

Do read this thread. It might actually open your eyes and your mind.

Goodness bs you must have some strange cm's near you- all the ones here would do those hours and certainly our CM had a house many levels above ours (her dh very successful Engineer)- and ours is ptretty nice (200 year old cottage)

Strange how it varies, I wonder if there was a shortgae of cm's in your area so the ones you got to meet were the ones less likely to be full, iyswim?

I was going to post, but decided better of it.....

While I am at it does anyone have any birch sticks?

'To that I say, "But if your child is cared for by a parent in his home where he does not get to go out because his parent is too busy doing the housework or lazy or depressed or has substance abuse issues, then I will continue to feel they're not having the best upbringing."' erm I dont leave home that often bar school runs (twice a week maybe, althopugh once in season for a whole day of kid-kid interaction) but ds's upbringing is far from shit, he just has sn brothers who need a very fixed routine! Situations vary

findtheriver, I like your 'SlightlyBored'. If Slightlysad starts a controversial thread and does not stick around to read the responses before going on about how she is still sad, then she is most definitely "SlightlyBored" or "ABitofaTroll".

My thoughts exactly peach. The ones not booked up in advance are the ones to avoid, as I learned the hard way. To get a good CM you need to look before the baby is born IME. Due to the free pre-school places many CM children move to pre-school/nursery at 3yrs so rotation usually happens every year for 1 space iyswim so its vital to book early.

hands birch sticks and also a cat 'o nine tails to Anifrangapani

Good point, Peachy. Too busy, lazy etc is the more damning part of the bad care because it reflects the disengagement of the parent, rather than one room. In fact, a self-contained nursery with a lot of toys and children and friendly carers, like your dcs at home with siblings and a committed mother, is hardly a bad thing. A lot of it is to do with the quality of care within a setting, rather than the actual setting.

Mytether your just peeved that i dont use a CM instead of a nursery, dont take it personally

We got a cm on spec for ds3 but were very lucky, a single place for odd hours around Uni starting just as an existing chiold went to school- worked well. We were so pleased indeed she is booked for ds4 when he starts needing childcare next September LOL and for ds3 after school care then but she has been abnormally wonderful including helping us when he started to be assessed for sn and all sorts

I'm 16+6 weeks pregnant with my first child and DH and I are going to look at a nursery on Monday as I will have NO CHOICE but to go back to work after baby is born. We think we will be able to just about cope financially if I go back 3 days a week, but that means baby has to go to nursery for those 3 days a week.

There is no way we can afford a CM, and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my baby with just one other adult for 3 days a week. I know a lot of friends whose babies have gone to nursery part-time and I think they actually benefit from being around other children/learning social skills etc - especially first babies who don't have siblings at home.

Even if we could afford for me to be a SAHM I would still want to work part-time as my job means a lot to me and, having been brought up by a mother who had nothing in her life except her children, it's really important to me to retain something of myself.

Sorry if this sounds defensive but I'm feeling pretty defensive as what the OP is basically saying is that her way is the best way and any other way will result it unhappy children - how the hell does she know that? How bloody judgemental.

Bicnod - I think your post is a good example of why ignorant people like the OP should think twice before starting threads like this. Women who are pg or on maternity leave who know they will have to make major decisions about childcare may well be feeling vulnerable.

On a positive note - you will be fine, and your baby will too. I did 3 days a week when I first returned to work - you quickly get into the swing of it, and as you say, you will have the benefits of being a mum and having an interesting work life.

The OP isn't authentic anyway - she's admitted to name changing and is clearly just wanting to stir things up. It;s my belief that she's bored and frustrated and probably envious of people like you!

I am a SAHM but Mother worked, to be honest I don't remember ever wanting her when she wasn't there. Although I am 34 and so spent time with GPs, my Mother was the most ambitious of my parents but worked part time to look after us. She is now in her fifties and bored as she moved abroad with my Father's job and cannot work. She would have been much happier had she worked and moved forward with her career as opposed to allowing my father to plod along with his.
It was the putting my children in nursery or with a CM that I just couldn't do, not that I judge anyone else for doing it. I have no reason for really disliking child care, most (ie 99%) of people I know love the way the children are growing, but as I didn't do it with my first and then had my second shortly after going back to work seemed pointless. Now having just had my fourth I am thinking of how and what to do, no profession means no stepping back in easily. I was successful but am no longer a cut throat business woman... not right now anyway.
Can't we just respect and admire people's choices and if they're not the same as ours be thankful for the choice that we made is right for us???
signed my hormones and me!!!

i used to think it was sad for the children too, although now dd is 17month old hairraising toddler im liking the sound of ft childcare

'Can't we just respect and admire people's choices and if they're not the same as ours be thankful for the choice that we made is right for us??? '

Amen to that

VT, everytime I see you post I have a little chuckle about your name!!

'plus MANY (i am not saying all) cms live in accommodation which i would consider unsuitable for my children.'

What an odd statement. Are they living in sheds or something?
The CM I had for dd once a week was fantastic. Unfortunately cos off dd's severe disabilities she could only have dd so she ended up losing money and had to end the contract. She lived in a normal house just like anyone else.

do they do childcare for teenagers? They are hogging my computer

I'm sad to read so many attacks and judgements on other people's choices. There is no perfect solution for everyone. There's just a whole bunch of people doing what they think is best for their circumstances. I think most would (albeit grudgingly) admit that there are imperfections in their choices but on the whole are presumably happy that it's working or they'd change it (negligent or abusive parenting aside).

I think it's up to the parents to do their best to make up for deficiencies in their childcare arrangements. For me as a SAHM that means I need to make an effort to ensure my children are adequately socialised with others of a similar age, and that they get the opportunities for messy play etc. that they would at a nursery. For someone who has a child at nursery it might mean taking their children out to see the world a bit when they do get the chance, see they know how to behave in other people's houses, in shops etc.

Just because a child's situation isn't ideal or perfect (I mean really what is?) it doesn't mean it's abusive or bad. It's just life.

beforesunrise - 'there is a lot of research showing that children under 1 do better (in many respects) in a more individualised care setting. some of this research is govt sponsored. yet the govt does nothing to promote and provide that type of care. now that would be a more interesting and more constructive debate.' - amen to that. Why, if the government so determined that all babies should be placed in nurseries from a young age, doesn't it make determined efforts to ensure that all nurseries are of an excellent standard, and that all nursery workers are well-qualified and well-rewarded?

Absolutely perty.

There is no such thing as an ideal world. We all do our best, depending on the situation we are in at that particular time in our life.

Circumstances change anyway. A lot of my friends are in the same position as I was - when we had our first babies we were at a fairly early stage in our careers and couldnt afford not to work. Some years later and a few more children down the line, a lot of us are earning significantly more, and can afford not to work. Some of us continue to work through choice, and others don't.

policywonk, you said "Why, if the government so determined that all babies should be placed in nurseries from a young age, doesn't it make determined efforts to ensure that all nurseries are of an excellent standard, and that all nursery workers are well-qualified and well-rewarded?"

Totally agree that more can be done by the government to improve the standard of nurseries overall and pay by nursery workers. I would be in favour of it.

But I am not so sure why you say the government is so determined that all babies should be placed in nurseries from a young age. The surestart funding starts after the 3rd birthday. So it is not babies, much less under 1. For under 1s, the mother's maternity leave/job protection could theoretically cover this. But in all cases, there is a childcare funding gap from 6 months (often earlier) to 3 years' old which parents have no support for, often having to fund childcare costs out of taxed income if they do not qualify for tax credits or the minimal childcare vouchers.

blueshoes, you're right about maternity leave, but for most families (in which both parents want/need to do paid work), that still leaves a six-month-old needing full- or part-time care. Day nurseries, for most families, are surely the most economical way of getting this care - as many people on this thread have said, a lot of families can't afford the child-minder/nanny option, especially if they have more than one child.

I think to some extent the Govt can't win on this one. Offer help through subsidies/child tax credits etc and they're criticised for 'forcing mothers back to work'. Yet if they don't help, there's an outcry about childcare being unaffordable, how it's preventing mothers from keeping their foothold in the workplace.

I just know that when I returned to work 3 days a week, my dd was 3 months old. Maternity leave was then a maximum of 6 months, but the last 3 months were unpaid, and with the cost of living being what it was then, many people couldnt afford to take that long. Nurseries were few and far between - I used a CM for dd1 - there are hundreds more nurseries now than then. And I would have given my right arm for some financial help - all of childcare costs came out of taxed income - no childcare vouchers, tax credits etc.

Of course there is always going to be room for improvement - but those of us with older teens will know that there is a hell of lot more choice out there now than when our eldest were babies.