To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

Portifino - i asked that same question early on in the thread, i didnt get an answer, funny that isnt it

Musticreasebust - you are SO right!

"Don't have children if you are not going to look after them. "

That old canard. The implications of that dangerous, stupid blinkered comment is that my role as a woman is one of three options

1. To catch a man and keep him and pray that the staggeringly high divorce rates don't affect me

2. To stay at home on benefits

3. Not to have children

I'm bringing my daughter in the same way that I bring up my son. To believe that they can and should have interesting and fulfilled jobs. If they want to become parents I have faith that they will become concerned and caring parents. The two roles are not incompatible.

Seems to me you wouldn't be so twitchy and over sensitive if you were happy with your choices.

I am fully entitled to believe that Pre-Schoolers shouldn't be spending 10 hours of their day in childcare. My opinion frankly shouldn't bother you. Why do you care what I think (I don't really care what you think)

choccynutter, my ds definately knows who his parents are, no doubt about that.

But statements like 'why have them if you cant look after them' are not very intelligent well thought out comments imo

nutter - I can assure you that my child knows who his mother is and I do a little more than just put him to bed! If that was all you did with your child when you worked then I can see why you are anti-childcare

trot off now your wind up business is done

VinegarTits, sorry the thread is very long. so not sure about which question? Iposted very ealry about how fantastic my nursery was!

stepford - its called a discussion.

If we don't question and challenge each other then its little more then a statement of facts and gets a little dull and repetitive.

And as I've previously said (but perhaps you haven't read that bit only being interested in your own views) I don't use a nursery so certianly not being defensive about them and i didn;t "have" my child so nothing to feel defnsive about there eihter.

Stepfordknife i feel sorry for your dc having to spend day in day out with just you and not being able to interact at nursery, it must be so miserable for them, they must get so bored, why bother having them if they are going to be house bound?

mustincreasebust (laughing as I type your name): "I find this whole WOHM/SAHM angst that British have is so bizarre. Only in so called western countries is child rearing such an isolated activity only to be done by the mother and father."

So true. It is all a bit precious, this obsession with growing your own. Ignores the fundamental resilience and adaptability of children in stable and loving homes, whether childcare is used or not. Believe or not, children can actually cope with having a nice stimulating time in an institution and come home to a loving family life and be all the richer and happier for it.

Quadrophenia, I don't feel shit about my choice actually. But I do feel angry that there are women around putting other women's lifestyle choices down.

It may be that the urge to put-down is as a result of poor self esteem, which actually a really good and fulfilling career would help to put right.

It may be that the urge to put-down comes out of envy for not being able to have the choice to work. Many women simply cannot afford the costs of a nanny or two children in nursery f/t (roughly equivalent).

Or it may be plain nastiness. Whatever. It's wrong to do it though.

Stepford - no, the definition of someone having a different opinion to me does not = ignorant idiot. IMO, the definition of 'don't have kids if you can't look after them' just becasue they go to a nursery so teh mum can work full time during the week does = ignorant idiot.

And fwiw, I don't give a toss what you think about my childcare arangemts! I'm actually not defending me, I'm defending a mothers right to do what she has to do, feels is right for her etc. No where on here do I feel I have defended my personal situation.

Ah yes! The gherkin knows who supplies his fruitshoots.

Bubble - he wearily accepts that Nanny is his only supply of apple juice!

'the only constant is that they feel loved'

I think you're right that this is the most important thing - the question is, can we really say that the vast majority of nursery settings provide this standard of care? Or that children at nursery are as likely to feel loved as children who are cared for by an intimate?

Again, this isn't to deby the existence of many excellent nurseries where children feel loved. But I just suspect that there aren't as many of these as there should be.

Anyone who says that women shouldn't have children if they're not going to stay at home with them is plainly talking utter nonsense.

Kew that was my experience of working full time with a 7-10mth old. Had to leave the house at7am and regularly didn't get back until 545 at night. LO had all meals with the CM and all we got to do was bath and bed. She kept no diary, photos etc so I didn't know my own baby properly after 3mths. Although I now know she was crap compared to the group I have worked with thankfully.

Kewcumber - I don't feel sorry for your DC . But I do feel sorry for people who have to use full time childcare when they don't want to. I wouldn't be happy doing it, simply because DS is so tired at the end of the day and I think he's too young to cope with more.

Actually 1.5 days is working very well for us. He's been there for about 5 months now and he's settled very well. He has lots of friends (especially girls!) and he really likes the staff. At least two of them he mentions by name at home all the time and he looks forward to going to nursery. So I'm happy that we have the balance right, for us.

portofino - i meant this question

'So at an advanced age I happened to find myself PG. Should I have had an abortion?'

Similar happened to me with ds2, i asked the same question as you, i didnt get an answer (not that i expected too)

Sleepycat - fantastic post. Let's just add yours to Mustincreasebybust! (so to speak). Historically speaking, if you were rich, you handed your newborn over to someone else to rear, if you weren't rich the whole family steppped in. (I have done family tree back to 1600s so have a feel for family relationships over time).

I honestly believe that a small child is not designed to sit at home with Mum all day by itself. This is a very recent inventiion.

well I wouldn't exist if all the women folk in my family took this line. I come from a long line of women too uncaring poor to have the luxury of the choice to lovingly hand rear their child 24/7 until they were gift-wrapped in cashmere and passed on to the careful charge of a teacher at 5.

We're a hard bunch us Kewcumbers, nursery?! Pah! Two generations ago DS would have been down the mines and been glad he wasn't sent to sea...

If all SAHMs sit at home I am puzzled as to why the toddler group, soft play, swimming pool, coffee morning and petting farms are so packed most days!