To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

Wow, I too send my dcs to nursery to get properly fed food that They Will Eat because their peers are there. A real life saver for my fussy eaters.

NorthernLurker.

My DCs will eat food that I've cooked at nursery but refuse to eat exactly the same thing at home.

Positive peer pressure, I reckon.

bubble, snap!!

A couple of parents have looked suspiciously at me when I've said that their DCs ate all of spinach and cheese tart they were given at nursery.

We now take photos for the doubters

This is true actually. No amount of home cooked (from scratch) meals will tempt dd.

But she would eat anything at nursery, she loved it.

How does that work then? (im a shit cook ?)

1. I think the aquariam was just an example of going on an outing during the working week, not that it happens daily.
2. She mentioned full time care not part-time and in all honesty I feel sad about babies under 1yo in nursery for so many hours per week. a) they see much less of their parents who are their world b) they have less comprehension of time and a 10hr day would feel a lifetime to a small baby c) most nurseries have 1 room for 5 children with a staff ratio of 2.5 babies per keyworker.Unfortunately keyworkers may be part-time/days off/holiday and thus continuity of care for an infant is inconsistent. It has been found that babies benefit from being cared for 1 significant person. I feel that babies benefit from personal care either by a CM or parent. Children over 18mths understand time and routine better and can be occupied with more interesting activities at nursery and so I feel they benefit from some nursery care because they are socialising and later learning rules and playing with others.
3. SAHMs are not dense, I am a trained professional but having returned to work felt that my dd1 was not receiving good care and felt that the nurseries were inadequate (1 room and small yard to play in, 1 walk out per week). This was all local nurseries, not just one. I also felt (and was lucky to be in the position that we could just manage financially) that by becoming a CM I could offer my dd more being at home than if I worked outside the home. I was knackered at the weekend having done 11hr days from dropping off to picking her up, which meant DH and I took turns lying in at the weekend and one took her out. We also had to fit housework and shopping in and ensure dd was given quality time. I found it stressful and because of this my dd was stressed and miserable. Also because the CM wasn't giving her adequate sleep she would cry constantly at home because she was so overtired. This is another reason I would not choose nursery, shared sleep facilities would not have suited my dd1 (light sleeper) and although I had a bad CM before I have since met several excellent ones where routines are met and children are happy.
4. I do have respect for anyone who works full time and feel it demonstrates a good work ethic to children and knowing how hard the choices are for parents to choose childcare feel its important people choose well depending on the ages and personality of the child. The main thing is that whatever choice is made is not a rash decision and that childcare is carefully planned to suit the parents and child.

On the food issue I had 2 children who were fussy at home but not with me (after about 1 mth). They don't feel so confident testing boundries with outsiders and because they have always had the rules at the CM it becomes second nature to fit in with the group.

'2) She mentioned full time care not part-time and in all honesty I feel sad about babies under 1yo in nursery for so many hours per week. a) they see much less of their parents who are their world b) they have less comprehension of time and a 10hr day would feel a lifetime to a small baby '

Oh ffs, they sleep most of the time when tiny anyway, ds hardly noticed i was gone, he missed the odd breastfeed thats all

If they are going to go to nursery anyway it is better for them to go when they are younger, its much harder to get a 2 -3 year to settle in a strange enviroment

Actually, thinking about it, imo, it's probably better to be a WOHM and send kids to nurseries or whatever arrangements suit you best when kids are teeny and save enough to be a sahm when your kids are a bit older, say around 10 - 18 so you can be there to check on what they are doing, support them with homework, cook them a meal etc etc.

Interesting points, but difficult to read (not enough spacing)

VT - sorry to not respond to your question earlier, bloody kids hey!

I am not a sahm I work p/t - and if I worked full time would not make any money as childcare cost more than my wages. If I were single I would do what my friend does and work p/t and share childcare with another friend. Which unless you are very well paid would be around the same as nursery fees.

And if that weren't possible I would work P/T and claim benefits till they were at school.

And as for Boarding school - over my dead body. (even if I had the money).

I had a childminder for ds (very quiet and timid), nursery for dd (more outgoing). Their arrangements suited them both.

Unfortunately I didn't have the choice to be a SAHM although I would love to be.

Single parent, I can stay at home and claim benefit, or I can work and bung them in childcare. There is no other option.

Easier, granted, now they are both at school.

VT - I really shouldn't respond to provocation, but...

"All you preachy smug sahm's, i ask you again what do you suggest i do (other that give up my job and live on benefits) as a woh single m with a child who goes to nursery full time, all suggestions welcome, not yet, through this whole thread, have i had one single sensible suggestion."

For the zillionth time, nobody is telling you what to do.

"Preachy, smug SAHMs" is rude and - yes- aggressive.

You say: "my ds is always better off when he is with me, but circumstances dont always allow for it to be that way!"

This suggests you'd prefer him to spend more time at home in an ideal world.

So why are you so busily defending nurseries?

As for: "if i were a sahm i would not do a lot of the things we do now, i would be more far more lax with my time".

How do you know that?

I could say that if I were a WOHM I'd spend "quality time" doing structured activities with my DCs. But that would be equally meaningless!

Blueshoes: I think the target thing disturbs people because it suggests that by a certain age, all DCs should be doing x,y or z. But as we all know, in real life they do everything when they're ready, not when it fits some government-devised timetable.

VT yours may have slept all the time, mine didn't from around 8wks to 5mths and had to be actively instructed to sleep. An inexperienced nursery worker would have interpreted this as her not being tired- she was knackered.

Oh yes! TC.

DS1 (nearly 11) needs so much more from me now. All of the emotional/puberty stuff is beginning.

And I have four boys. Think of the sheets/washing

Maybe mine slept because he was content

VT I am not a 'smug' SAHM and know how difficult working full time is with a baby or children. I have not slated anyone. My only view that you may not like is my opinion that babies benefit from a good childminder compared to a good nursery for full time care. Part-time is not so crutial and just provides a good variety for any age but full time is long days, disrupted sleep for a light sleeper like my dd1.
Whatever you choose though I have learned that its important that if you want to go back to work you need to get children used to sleeping through anything which dd2 now does thankfully.

I totally agree Tomcat - my LOs need a lot more interaction from me now that they are older - help with homework, prapring stuff for school, discussing what they have learnt in school.

Babies need warmth, cuddles, good food, lots of affection. At nursery they usually have as primary carer anyway don't they - who they build up a strong 121 bond with?

I think this whole "nurseries are bad for you" myth is a load o bollox, comissioned by the Daily Mail to make women feel guilty for having a career and drive them back into the kitchen.

Less well off women have always worked
Rich wwomen have always used nannies (and wet nurse in the past)
In traditional communities, children (and especially babis) get passed around huge extended families of aunties etc with no psycholical damage - The idea that a baby can only have a meaningful relationship/bond with its bith mother is a load of egotistical tosh

I'm loathe to step into this so I'll coose my words as carefully as I can... but I feel strongly that all children, even tiny babies, know the difference between someone who loves them and someone who does not.

Now, admittedly this is just an instinct and I have no hard evidence for it.

I've seen people post on here before that their child's nursery workers do love them - which is great. It doesn't ring true for any nursery setting I've seen, but then I haven't seen many.

I think a lot of posters on here have the economic and social means to choose really great nursery settings for their kids. But my fear is that a lot of nursery settings are not as good as those being described on here. But again, this is a surmise and I'm sure we could all find various research findings to back up opposing points of view.

I've no wish to make anyone feel bad about their choices - just as I don't want anyone to try to make me feel bad about mine. I quite take the point that childcare can be bad and it can be great, and that includes childcare given by SAHPs. I'll freely admit that mine watch too much telly. But the fitness or otherwise of nursery settings in this country is a legitimate topic for debate, surely? Particularly when the government is using pretty much all the means at its disposal to get parents to use them.

VT she wasn't settled because she was huge and having to bf 15 times per day and hardly got time to sleep That was until 13wks solid and not just a growth spurt BTW!

The problem with nurseries for me is that everytime I pick up my nephews, there is always a baby crying on it's own and the staff are dealing with someone else.

three babies to one person day in day out is craziness (ask my friend with triplets, she is still suffering from their babyhood and they are in their teens!)

Dotto, I honestly never noticed the targets thing at work in my dcs' nursery or even in my dd's nursery school. But once she reached reception, yes, those reading targets etc I feel are not particularly helpful for different rates of learning. I think in the early years, the targets are really easy to meet and mostly play anyway with a few colours thrown in. I speak as a mother of a dd who generally learns at her own pace - euphemism for she gets there, but takes longer than others.

Mmmmm. its just that the childminders I know of would only look after my children over my dead body....

I am as opposed to childminders as many SAHMS probably are to nurseries (I must admit). This opposition to childminders are for MY CHILDREN and I have plenty of friends who have wonderful experiences with childminders. I think childcare is such a personal thing.

Unless you are a SAHM or employ a nanny your child will have to fit in to other routines.

If your CM needs to pick children up from school your child will not have their usual 2.30pm sleep.

That's the way it goes.

"As for: "if i were a sahm i would not do a lot of the things we do now, i would be more far more lax with my time".

How do you know that?"

Erm i do get time off you know, i have spend days at home with ds, i took 2 months off work when ds was 18 mths old, it didnt suit either of us

"You say: "my ds is always better off when he is with me, but circumstances dont always allow for it to be that way!"

This suggests you'd prefer him to spend more time at home in an ideal world."

Erm, actually it doesnt suggest that at all, i could not spend all my time with my ds, it would drive me up the wall, and him too.

"For the zillionth time, nobody is telling you what to do."

I am not asking you to tell me what to do, i am asking you to suggest alternatives, seeing as you feel so sorry for my ds.