To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

I would use a childminder (for a baby at least) if I knew them and had built up trust.

beforesunrise if you can't be bothered to read/post on a thread then why post something to tell us you can't be bothered Surely the best option would be not to type anything

tootiredtotango - you are doing loads with your DC by just being there, there's a book called what mothers do which is brilliant for mums who feel if they aren't doing a jigsaw then they aren't "doing" anything, you'd love it i'm sure.
I put my babies in for a break, sometimes I was working, sometimes I just wanted some time to myself.
Thats the bit I regret the most, because you can't get that time back and when they have gone to school you miss those days

Most good CMs will try to get parents on mat leave to come with them to places they go. That way the child gets to know the minder and the parents get to see how the CM looks after the dcs. I left it too late to find care and didn't have this opportunity with dd1 and the CM was not forthcoming about doing this which should have rang alarm bells with hindsight.

katie

I have heard of that book, I will try and get a copy.

soopermum1 - and what's wrong with dragging your kid round the shops every now and again? [hmm) i think it's a positive thing. children must learn that in addition to all the lovely things like visits to aquariums that they must also do stuff of someone else's choice and take it with good grace.

I didn't say that my kids don't go to the shops, but they don't get 'dragged' round as an 'activity'. We go food shopping if we need to. Clothes shopping and the like can wait until DH is around.

i wonder who's got the decision making power in OP's household.

As for who has the decision making power - ME most definitely. I make all the major decisions.

Back to read some more posts.

Katie that was the only thing putting me off a nanny TBH, the tax credits issue. How easy is it to get a nanny registered with OFSTED?

SS

Does'nt everyone shop because they NEED to?
It would drive me crazy doing child centred stuff all the time!!!

I also agree with what someone else said about children needing to just be (some of the time anyway)

[Given that aquariums seem to have become so central to childcare, shouldn't there be a fish topic? We could post about the advantages of clown fish over jellyfish, fish welfare and traveling to foreign aquariums. Maybe we could lobby parliament for more aquariums. We could push for a bit of the OFSTED report to cover access to aquariums?]

I would expect that from a playtpus lol

My DSs are entirely uninterested in fish (and, indeed, animals of all sorts). They just don't care. Unfortunately we only discovered this after FIL had forked out about half his monthly pension for tickets to Blue Planet.

Have read the whole thread now.

To the sahms insisting that their childcare is "better" than the alternatives yet admit to dragging their children around shops and parking them in front of the TV all morning. You're both smug and deluded.

There is a more serious discussion to be had around why women should have children if they have a choice of not working. This question is disturbing because of its latent sexism in presupposing that a woman's place is in the home.

I have a tremendously satisfying job. It has taken me years of study to get to my job. I am very well-rewarded financially. This gives me both intellectual stimulation and economic power. Women have a hard-won right to both of those things.

For women without marketable skills, staying at home is often the only realistic choice. I understand that. But I don't understand why anyone would want to turn the clock back 100 years in defence of their own personal choices (or lack thereof).

Mytetherisending, if you find a nanny you like and she isn't already then it just costs £100 to register her then you can pay her/him in childcare vouchers and claim tax credits.
www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Forms-and-guidance/Browse-all-by/Care-and-local-servi ces/Childcare

As a woman with very marketable skills I can dip in and out of the work place and my issue is not with childcare but with nurseries which I feel is an artifical environment for a young baby and with legislation squeezing out alternatives it feels very wrong, it's almost as if parents aren't good enough to raise their own children these days.
SAHM's cost the government a fortune in lost tax and NI don't forget that when you're being told sitting at home watching TV or playing at the park is not good enough for your child.

Oh and I know plenty of working mums who spend Saturdays dragging the kids around the shops and parking them in front of the TV whilst they catch up on chores so that's hardly quality time is it ?
I think in the future more and more will choose not to have children at all purely because it's so damn difficult to do anything right these days.

Well i have read most of this thread now.
I think that this thread and others along the same vein are sad simply because you see lots of women trying to justify their own choices.
And that is what it boils down to, choice.

People (dads as well as mums) make choices about working, not working, childcare options based on their own circumstances at the time.

I see no reason to judge anyones choice as it is very much a personal thing and no one really knows what goes on behind other peoples closed doors.

I have to say i found some of hambo's comments really patronising. At some point it looked like she/he was saying that if your circumstances forced you to work then of course you were doing the best you could but this was still second best to staying at home.

I try to appreciate the difference in peoples lives and cultures. I'd like to think that as women we can support each other and as people regardless of gender we can recognise that life is never black and white.

In our household, "chilling" means the DCs lying on their backs on the floor with their legs in the air, normally giggling at some inanity or other!

It definitely does not involve TV...

I, for one am not trying to justfy my choices. I AM trying to work out what I think is right for MY family. There is no smugness in my opinions because I have no idea what is best for my family.

"In our household, "chilling" means the DCs lying on their backs on the floor with their legs in the air, normally giggling at some inanity or other!

It definitely does not involve TV... "

That is not a particulary helpful statement is it??

BTW tv is educational and parents at work get a dinner break.

Dottoressa - here are my thoughts on your comments

"And now VT: "I am a WOH sinlge M, does that make me less of a parent?"

No - unless that's how you feel. The aggressive tone of your posts suggests that might be the case."

I'm sorry, but i do not see what is aggressive about my question, sounds like you are trying to provoke me tbh.

"But you are branding other mothers 'ignorant' and 'smug'. Why?"

I said some mothers not all other mothers, please read my posts more carefully.

You still didnt manage to come up with some useful suggestions to my situation, so i will ask you, what do you suggest i do to change my lifestyle and avoid my ds going to nursey full time?

I don't think I said it was helpful. I just meant to say that there are lots of definitions of "chilling", as it's being assumed that it's the same as "watching TV". Unless the OP mentioned TV, which I don't think she did, why assume that's what she meant? (not aimed at you tttt)

I know TV is educational. 6-y-o obsessive DS watches Adam Hart Davis on the Cosmos, and as a result is able to bore me with Facts About Black Holes.

'SAHM's cost the government a fortune in lost tax and NI .'

eh?
I save the Govt several grand a week myself. Being a Carer.

dot

Ok - fair enough. I just thought you were trying to say that TV is BAd full stop! Obviously not.

VT - it was the whole tone of your post that was unnecessarily aggressive.

I don't suggest you change your lifestyle. I don't suggest that anyone change their lifestyle.

What I do say is that if you are happy with your DS at nursery, then that's great. If you're not happy with it, admit it (in which case, you might also have to admit that you have some scrap of sympathy for the OP).

Whether you have no choice but to send your DS to nursery is a different matter from whether you think that nursery would be best for him in an ideal world.

What I strongly believe is that people make their choices, up to a point. If they are really happy with their choices, then it won't matter a stuff what anyone else says.

If people have no choice where work/childcare is concerned, then there is no reason to feel bad or defensive about that, either. If you have no choice but to use a nursery, that's just a fact of life, and not something to feel bad about.

People should stop getting at one another, and be more concerned about what is good for children. Countless studies have shown that spending long hours in nurseries is not good for young children - so shouldn't the government be doing more to help mothers find alternative, better solutions to the problem?

So long as everyone is taking this personally, though, nobody stands a chance of doing anything useful.

Ooh no. There's nothing I like better than falling asleep on the sofa while DD watches Cinderella for the trazillionth time...