To feel a bit sad for children in nurseries 8-6 every day?

[SlightlySad]

It struck me yesterday as I took DS2 to the aquarium then for a walk along the seafront that he was very lucky to be doing this. He'd had a few hours chilling out in the morning, taken his big brother to school, had a fun trip out, then back home for a nap.

If he had been in nursery since 12 weeks, then he wouldn't be doing half the things that he does - mother and toddlers, soft play, baby classes, singing classes, trips to the park, pre-school sessions... I know that some nurseries do these things, but it's not every day, and these are the better nurseries. Some children must spend most of their week in one room. I think this would drive DS2 mad.

I'm very lucky in not working, but this isn't a SAHM vs WOHM issue. I just think if I had to go out to work, that I would choose a childminder to care for my children rather than sending them to a nursery.

If you chose a nursery, does yours do lots of extra stuff? Do the children leave the nursery building/garden often? Why did you go with a nursery and not a CM?

my 2-year-old asks to go to nursery with DD1.

they both love it.

they're bored stiff here.

much more fun playing with other kids nonstop.

I feel sad for kids who are abused, neglected, living in war zones and third world countries

I do not feel sad for kids being looked after by trained professionals, in safe stimulating enviroments so their parents can go to work.

They dont lock em in cupboards and feed them mouldy bread and water at nursery you know, ofsted wouldnt allow it

Amen, VT.

If I had the means I wouldn't hesitate to put my two girls in FT at DD1's nursery.

The atmosphere is terrific and DD1's made a lot of pals there.

They're nearly 3 and 5 (DD1 was retained at stage/held back).

I think once they get to be about 3 they start to enjoy the company of other kids.

Apologies - haven't read whole thread.

I have my 3 year old in doing a full day in a fantastic children's centre.

I wouldn't have sent him full time to a nursery as a baby. I don't think babies do as well being cared for in herds as being cared for by one loving adult in a home environment.

I also have major misgivings about the quality of provision in many of the private nurseries round our way. The one my friend uses seems to be staffed soley by very dim girls under 20, other than the room managers and the manager herself. There's no comparison with the children's centre my son attends where all the staff are great - very mature, all NVQ level 3 or above qualified, and where there are 3 qualified teachers in every day. The head of centre is always getting calls from parents asking if they have places for babies (the centre takes children from 2). She always says no because children under 2 are better off cared for in a home-like setting.

Sorry - would want to add that I'm not entirely happy about my 3 year old doing a full day (by which I mean 9.30 - 3.30). Would rather have him at home in the afternoons but it's just too difficult at the moment with my work issues. I couldn't conceive of him doing 8 - 6 at this age.

Disappearing act? Hmm, sorry - just out of hospital following burst appendix, so maybe I'm not on the PC all the time...

But I shall read your posts, ftr and VT, and will see if I can comment sensibly on them!

Oh if only we lived in a perfect world were we could stay at home with our dc when they were little, some people dont have that luxury, some choose not to do it anyway, dont critise other parents for their choices until you have walked in their shoes for one day

I need vodka tonight, this thread has strassed me out man!

don't all nursery staff have NVQ's?

Feck. stressed

can i do a yawn emotion

By coincidence I am reading the Statutory Framework for EYFS and for under-3s you only need 1 person with a level 3 qualification and half of the rest with a level 2. They are within the legal requirements for the rest of the staff to be unqualified. I didn't know that.

Why did I choose a nursery rather than a child minder? Despite visiting CMs that were OFsted checked - I found everyone I saw (I visited 5!) weren't able to really reassure me enough regarding safety of my child. Some it turned out were waiting for their first Ofsted inspection. Two had out of date car insurance or first aid certificates in their portfolio they showed me. One had no toys on display at all in their home and lots of china on display . One made it clear that DS was expected to have his nap in a puschair while other mindees were dropped off at school. Perhaps I was being overly precious myself- I really don't care - the fact was none of them were really able to reassure me in the same way the nursery did regarding the safety and activities provided. I am lucky it has worked out really well for us - but just as there are good nurseries there are good CM's - For me it seems a much harder search for a good CM.

I'm not sure I've read everything thoroughly (brain still in general anaesthesia mode), but comments specifically for ftr and vt:

vt: "Parenting is about living - living your life in a good and positive way, providing good opportunities and experiences for your child, being a good role model so that they learn how to build relationships, and how the world operates. There is nothing to suggest that having one parent at home full time for a completely arbitrary period of time will enable this to happen in a better way. End of."

I can't see that anyone could disagree with this in general. However, the OP wasn't about parents needing to be there full time: it was specifically about nurseries. One of my best friends is a nanny to three children whose parents work 7-9pm five days a week. The children are absolutely delightful: happy, well balanced, polite and pleasant company. Horrid as it sounds, I doubt that they would be quite so pleasant if they spent every day with their parents!!

Another acquaintance is a childminder. If I didn't look after my own children, I would be more than happy to entrust them to her. Whenever I see her, she is engaged with her charges in some way - even if just getting them to pay for a newspaper. She is superb, and the children whom she looks after are by all accounts having a lovely childhood. One of my friends travels 60 miles per day to leave her children with this childminder!!

I wouldn't suggest for a minute that any of these children would feel anything other than happy, loved and safe.

Nor would I believe that children who spend some of their time in a nursery would suffer any ill effects. My own children went to a lovely little nursery school for three mornings a week before starting school, and they had a fantastic time. It was a tiny place, and the staff all had grown-up children of their own so had lots of experience and time to give to the little ones.

And now VT: "I am a WOH sinlge M, does that make me less of a parent?"

No - unless that's how you feel. The aggressive tone of your posts suggests that might be the case.

"does than make mean my dc are not as happy yours? actually i already know the anwser to that. I know i am a great mother, you only have to speak to my dc to know i have done a good job in rasing them Ds1 is 19, independant, intelligent and wonderful, i am proud of him and pat myself on the back everytime i realise what a lovely young man he has turned out to be."

I take my hat off to you. I can only hope I can say the same thing of my DS when he's 19.

"So i dont need to defend my parenting but it makes me so at the ignorance and smuggness of some mothers, i can only imagine they put other parents down to try and make themselves feel like they are good parents, i dont have to do that."

But you are branding other mothers 'ignorant' and 'smug'. Why?

What I feel sad about is the children who are put in full-time nursery from 8-6, five days a week. They can't possibly get the one-to-one (or one-to-two-or-three, if there are siblings) care that children under three undeniably need (see research by Sue Palmer, Penelope Leach, Steve Biddulph et al) from a significant adult (be it Grandma, nanny, childminder or parent).

I believe that children learn the most from socialising outside the home/nursery with people of all ages - not just their peers. They learn from going to the shops, from wading through leaves, from poking at drains. They don't need to be ferried from educational activity to educational activity, but they do need heaps and heaps of time with an adult who cares about them more than anyone else alive.

I am not saying this to put anyone else down or to make people feel bad/guilty about their own needs/choices. In any case, if you genuinely feel happy about your own choices, nothing that anyone else says should make you feel guilty! I am saying it because it's what I feel strongly to be the case.

"dont critise other parents for their choices until you have walked in their shoes for one day"

I don't think anyone is criticising other parents for their choices. I think those of us who criticise nurseries are criticising the environment, not the parents!

i cant be bothered to read, let alone post on, this thread...

I only went back to work for 3mths after dd1. I had a crap CM and dd cried when left and when picked up every day for 3mths. I wanted to work to keep my hand in as I had to to be able to re register. I gave it up after 3mths because my dd1 was miserable and decided to become a CM because I knew I could provide good care for someone else and have an income (which we need).
All of the nurseries near me opened at 7.45/8am which didn't leave enough time for me to get to work and I wasn't able to start later. My only option (and space for an under 1yo was with the CM.
Also, all of the nurseries had limited outdoor time and only had one small baby room. None were suitable for my dd IMO. I am now hoping to go back to work as dd2 will be 10mths if I get the job I want but the situation is far easier as I have worked with the CM who will care for dd2 and know how she will spend her days. The CM I had for dd1 didn't hand over at all so I knew nothing about her time during the day from 7-10mths. My dd1 will be 3yrs and will go to pre-school in the mornings and have a CM in the afternoon, so she can still have a good quality pm nap without noise disturbance.
So basically all care can be good and bad and both are good in moderation. I still would not choose to have my dcs in nursery full time as I prefer the variation they get with a good childminder.

Hmm well all I can say is that I have put my children in nursery from 12 weeks in one case and from 9 months in another and I regret it.
There is time enough for painting and baking and being educated by professionals when they are three.
That is when we went to school and if I was in charge I would make sure that every family had a choice in weather the parents both work.
I don't believe it's good for young babies to be in a nursery and cringe at the irony of one named kid factory by us.

Oh and I would rather have my baby sat on the knee of a childminder who was mumsnetting at the time than in a nursery setting.

Agree Katie DD. My 2 year old started at a nursery for 2 mornings a week recently. The nursery is great - ofsted/activities etc as others have gone to great lengths to describe.

But still feel personally that for most children a morning is more than enough time to be in that environment, and 2 is the youngest they should be left there. Its too loud, too stimulating. I remember going to a playgroup when I was 3 for a few mornings and the sheer relief of my mum coming to take me home where I could read/do my own thing/have some peace.

I have numerous friends who made me feel guilty my baby WASNT in nursery - extolling the advantages of "socialising" (at 6 months ffs) and learning baby yoga and French.

However when I drop dd off at her nursery several children being left were visibly upset. When I went to get dd at lunchtime these children were still miserable. Friends whose children are full time in nursery often explain that the child "loves it" even though they weep when left because the nurseries report that they cheer up 5 minutes later. Maybe some do but in my limited experience a sizeable minority are unhappy.

Have also read Affluenza its worth a read.

ok i can't resist... surely no one puts a baby in a nursery for 10/11 hours a day because they want to???? surely it's because they need to? have you heard of a thing called WORK??? nannies are a great deal more expensive and despite what they would have you believe, many, many cms esp in central london live in tiny flats whcih are inadequate for young children to be in all day. PLUS it is almost impossible to find a cm who works long enough hours to accommodate a full time office job, which again in london is typically 8.30-6- plus commuting time.

so that's it really- perhaps before starting a thread which is bound to seriously offend and in some case hurt working parents who often have no choice, you should think for a second about what said thread is going to achieve, besides the offence and the hurt?

I can undersatnd why people think that OP appears to be smug, although I think she is just being honest about how SHE feels.

I am a SAHM and sometimes I DO feel sorry for children left in a nursery OR a childminders all day, everyday during the week. BUT, I often wonder if children who are in F/T childcare have more quality time with their parents (at weekends/evenings) and also have lots of stimulus in their childcare setting.

I do try to do activites with my DC BUT often wonder were my days actually go because we don't seem to do a lot!!!!

Both of my children went to nursery p/t and my new baby will be too (so I can have a break . My baby will be weeks old when he starts.

I have chose a nursery as I feel it is safer for baby than a childminder who is on their own. I know there are some brilliant CM out there but I have trust issues.

Just read the OP. Astonished at grotesque smuggery, and acknowledge that I may be overreacting when I post ...

Feeling very sorry for the OP's DS2. How dull to be stuck all the time with just mum. By the way, is "chilling" a euphemism for being parked in front of the TV?

I use 'chilling' as a code for watching tv - so I think it may well be.

YANBU or U really - My son does two days a week nursery, I think it's really important for socialising, plus he comes out with loads of new things to say each time he goes. There are no trips out but they have a small playground and get fresh air sessions everyday. However a couple of carers there have said to me about the kids there all day everyday, that to be honest, they find it a bit sad, becaue they're getting more of the best of the kids than the parents in their opinion.

I find working part-time and SAH the other half is the perfect balance but not eveyone is able to do this...it's just not an option for everyone.

On mother and toddler groups, I find my LO doesn't enjoy them as much as nursery as he doesn't have the trust in the other kids like at nursery. Plus as I'm quite pregnant now I resent all the crawling around tidying up

I don't know if I'd use a childminder I didn't already know in some capacity as you can't be a fly on the wall - with nurseries you don't need them so much as it's all in the open. Having said that my sis is a wonderful childminder, wish she was closer!

Something worth passing on is if you have a young child and qualify for tax credits, if you ask a nanny to register with ofstead you can claim tax credits to pay the nanny, including her tax and NI, I honestly don't know why more people don't do this especially if you have 2 or more or a school child and a baby. It gives the parents more flexibility and some times little ones just want to sit on somebody's knee and have a cuddle.
With the best will in the world nurseries have bums to change, food to prepare, breaks to organise plus if the nursery nurses are mums themselves they probably have a million other things in their heads too, just sitting and chilling with a child isn't an option.
Also mine never cried, everyone used to comment she never ever cried, brilliant I thought until I bumped into an ex NN from her nursery who said they were so busy with the upset/ill/tired/noisy ones the babies who didn't cry basically spent the day in the bouncy chairs, very rarely held.