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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want to post on the "For my husband to earn £65,000 per annum and we still can't afford to live"..... thread because it's full???

527 replies

chockywocky · 07/11/2008 21:17

i cant believe its full and and havent had my say.....

OP posts:
findtheriver · 11/11/2008 22:22

Am at the suggestion that arranging childcare is more likely to fall to the woman as she is the 'most knowledgeable'!!!

My DH would have been very put out at the suggestion that I should organise childcare myself. He was absolutely as interested as I was about where our child was going to be and how they were going to be looked after while we went to work. Why wouldn't he be?

Just because mothers bf doesn't mean they know more about their children, or are more concerned about how they are cared for!

Kewcumber · 11/11/2008 22:58

"Just because mothers bf doesn't mean they know more about their children, or are more concerned about how they are cared for!" - and not having breast fed (or even given birth to!) DS I would great exception to anyone who felt this precluded me from understanding his needs.

EachPeachPearMum · 12/11/2008 14:31

NAO Quattro works in a very niche market....
She has hinted previously but does not want to unmask herself!

Smee · 12/11/2008 21:46

Aw don't be mean to Noonki, who I think is making a very valid and reasonable point. Let's face it, it is mostly women who find themselves doing the first few months, so they're the ones who have the time in the day to go and look at childcare options. I know no end of incredibly caring dads who haven't been able to do the trawl of nursery/ childminder/ nanny or whatever searching simply because of practicalities.

Judy1234 · 12/11/2008 22:04

One reason I went back to work at 2 weeks was so that sexist patterns were not established at home. I never let myself be more competent than him or did that silly thing women do of saying oh he's hopeless, only I know the children, only I can put on a happy etc. You have to enable the man to do those things, let him do them differently and never pick up the slack. If the task you've shared isn't done by him you let it be undone. Lots of women cannot achieve that. I accept that and namet's position is much more common than the positoin of women who are perhaps more assertive like me or finda. Does it also come down to money and power? If we knew in my marriage I would always earn more (and I ended up earning 10x more) then that inevitably means one career is more important.

So the answer is for women to marry men who earn less and aren't as good as them but they hardly ever ever do. It seems to be inherent in us for evolutionary reasons to marry up, to marry men who are cleverer, better, earn more, a bit older etc etc who can look after us . I didn't do that and paid the price on divorce but most women do and it is a balance which suits the male ego quite well anyway and a lot of women seem to like it.

If you are wanting to change things later I suppose one answer is just spend all the money on help rather than getting the man to help. EWe eventually could afford someone in the house every morning so didn't do washing really very much any more or cleaning whcih obviously made things easier. We had someone who collected children after school and did their dinner. We had a nanny who would take them to the doctor, for injections etc etc. IN other words if the man won't do it then you'll just have to pay for someone else to and then gradually work towards a more even relationship, particularly if you can out earn him. Go back to work and aim to earn double what he does. That will show him!

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 13/11/2008 00:37

that is not THE answer Xenia

I married a man my intellectual equal

he works

i mind the children

we both do the domestic stuff

he does half childcare when home

findtheriver · 13/11/2008 07:32

Then that's fine notanotter - it works for you!
But many couples want to share parenting and working outside the home. And it's perfectly possible for this to happen without either parent missing out on anything.
Xenia over simplifies it and brings it all back to money, which I don't agree with - but I think many couples want to balance their roles through both earning and both having equal caring responsibilities.

PuzzleRocks · 13/11/2008 09:18

I cannot fathom being in a marriage with someone who wasn't my intellectual equal. What an odd suggestion.
On paper I have a slightly better academic record than DH but I choose to be the one who works part-time. This was a decision made after DD was born, while I was pregnant we had decided I would be the main earner. After she was born I couldn't bear the idea. Horses for courses.

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 13/11/2008 20:54

i agree with you wholehearteldy find the river

Judy1234 · 14/11/2008 20:35

Yes, but most men marry someone who is slightly "below" them in terms of eaernings, knowledge etc so whilst women may well want a man their intellectual equal or better because we tend ot marry up and want someone we look up to respect etc men do the complete opposite which is why women end up being servants at home and men work.

Ronaldinhio · 14/11/2008 22:18

was that the case in your marriage xenia? It certainly isn't the case in mine...
Perhaps it is too obvious a contruct to explain the truth behind the make up of modern relationships?

great post to start a ruck though

wittyusername · 14/11/2008 22:21

I've never known anyone to consider earning power when marrying in RL, just the will and ability to hold down a job!

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 14/11/2008 22:30

we were in love and i got up the duff....

ScottishMummy · 14/11/2008 22:31

here's a novel idea -marry for love not money

PuzzleRocks · 15/11/2008 09:12

Witty, me neither. I'm sure plenty of people do but I suspect they are doomed to fail for that very reason.

Judy1234 · 15/11/2008 11:53

Yes but why do most women look for stability and ability to support them in a man (and tend to prefer the man in the suit to the man out of work or who empties the bins) whether consciously or otherwise because survey after survey has shown women just follow their biological imperative to find a good provider. |It's the main reason for women's lack of success in the work place as if you marry up as a woman when it comes to deciding do we forgo the earnings of £100k so he/she can mind the baby or £15k from her / his work as a classroom assistant you can bet your bottom dollar time after time it's the man who is the higher earner simply because women marry slightly older men who earn more and men like prettier usually slightly younger women and in most cases men are not remotely interested in whether she will keep him, but women are.

If we could ensure most girls earned more than their men we would at a stroke ensure in 40 years time most of the board of BP/BT and the cabinet etc etc was mostly female. However it won't happen because we have this internal chemistry which ensure the survival of the species which tells women to seek good providers (even if they think it's just love that has made them prefer the good looking man in the nice clothes over the tramp/call centre operative etc)

PuzzleRocks · 15/11/2008 12:01

Fair point Xenia, I suppose I have a fairly narrow view as my grammar school was recognised as one of the best in the country and my experiences are on the whole of very driven young women for whom the earnings of a potential mate were largely irrelevant.
Having said that, I do notice that relationships rarely work out where the woman is earning more. Is this because the man feels emasculated? Pre marriage I was in a relationship with a much lower earner and although I would never have wanted him to support me, I was guilty of thinking slightly less of him for being financially dependent on me.
I'm wafflng now, must go and eat something.

marlasinger · 15/11/2008 19:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 15/11/2008 21:54

Xenia when i was shagging dp at university let me assure you - his ability to support me did not register

his ability in other departments was what interested me

Judy1234 · 16/11/2008 09:16

Oh poor marlasinger. I think the best advice any women can ever have is "ditch the guilt". I was interviewed once by a journalist who had been doing a series of profiles of "successful working women". I remember her saying that a common theme of all of them was they felt they just had to do a good enough not at home and at work. They weren't constantly worrying was that work or that time with the child first class. Simply would it "do". I think that's how I feel. I obviously want to be the best at what I do in terms of work in the UK but I will stop when I feel I've done enough or done what the task requires and then forget about it and then spend some time with the children until I feel I've done enough of that and then not agonise unduly about whether it was "enough". Because nothing is perfect.

Many parents, male and female, find it easier to go to work than be at home. The nature of the job at home is one of not completing tasks. You do something and then redo it. At work you tend to get some personal glory and praise and money and do a task and it's finished. With children it's like building the Forth Bridge, it's never finished and you redo again and again what you've already done. It's just a very different task than most external work. I like to have both but I would not have been happy just with the children and nor are most parents and probably 99% of men and we don't criticise the men for that.

Glad my initial advice had helped. I think mothers who want not just help but 50% parenting with a spouse need to be humble and self deprecating but some get so full of themselves - they are the only person on the planet who understands and can deal with this baby. They need that personal glory that they alone of the 6bn people in the world can deal with that baby. In fact their partner may be better. Lots of people are better than I am at loads of things.

I remember when I was 22 and first employing a nanny which is pretty hard when you're also in your first job and quite young and inexperienced the key to it working was accepting she was different. She might well do things differently but they weren't necessarily wrong even if they might be things I wouldn't necessarily do (obviously with some limits like no smacking etc) and accepting that she, the children's father and I together were bringing up those children ( we had three under four at one point when I and their father were working full time) and we would each have different ways of doing things but should each not criticise each other.

I have never worked part time but looking from the outside in on it it wouldn't suit me as the pay is usually quite low and sometimes you end up doing too much at home because you're the one in part time work. But if you read some entrepreneur's books (apart from the fact they all work hard and I have at times worked very hard) they do say work smart not necessarily hard. If you can find work that pays a lot of a short time working do that. If some of my work pays me about 42 times the minimum wage then it's better to do one hour at that than 42 hours cleaning etc., that that everyone has choice. But someone might decide to run children's parties for £200 for 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon which seems to be the rate around here for good entertainers rather htan 33 hours in a local care home.

findtheriver · 16/11/2008 10:47

I agree with you Xenia about the inherent danger of any one person thinking that they are the only person who can possibly meet the needs of a baby. There can be a fine line between deciding to stay at home and be the main carer because that's what suits you, and actually believing that somehow you are the only person who can carry out this role effectively.

And I suspect that in some cases (not all) it is a 'personal glory' thing . If you have had a high status, interesting job, and then you give it up, there can be a danger in transferring your own need to be valued and given recognition. If you wrap up your entire existence around a baby, then you get a distorted sense of feeling valued. Because our children are not a career, or a project, they are their own person, little individuals who have two parents, and will from the moment they pop out, learn to build relationships with other people.

You also see the danger later on when the children are in school. The worst mothers for fussing around at school, being 'helicopter parents', wanting to stick an oar in everything, are frequently the more capable mothers who are frustrated and frankly need to go and find other outlets for using their skills.

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 16/11/2008 18:00

and parenting is 'not' an outlet for these skills findtheriver

'fussing' 'helicopter' i like your terminology

much respect shown again to the sahp

findtheriver · 16/11/2008 18:07

Parenting is about loving and caring for your children. It's not a set of skills applied to a task.

And if you read the post, I said some SAHM

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 16/11/2008 18:36

OK had another read findtheriver

'The worst mothers for fussing around at school, being 'helicopter parents', wanting to stick an oar in everything, are frequently the more capable mothers who are frustrated and frankly need to go and find other outlets for using their skills.'

That sounds lovely

NotanOtterOHappyDay · 16/11/2008 18:39

had a little think whilst having a quick soak just then

I take back all my earlier arguments

I am infact THAT sahm spoken of here

Depressed
miserable
dull
downtrodden
bored
never leaving the house to exercise me or my child

luckily my depressive state makes me prone to bi polar which allows me to

fuss around at school
be a helicopter parent and
stick an oar in everything

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