to want to post on the "For my husband to earn £65,000 per annum and we still can't afford to live"..... thread because it's full???

[chockywocky]

i cant believe its full and and havent had my say.....

i see - thankyou

do people really perceive sahps as sweat- pant - clad. overweight, depressed, ill educated,oprah viewing, layabouts?

how mis informed these people are

surely some of them are!! in the same way that some office bound mums are uncaring self serving bitches.. but not all

just mad unhelpful stereotyping

NAO - a substantial minority of posters seem to think that SAHPs only choose to stay at home because we couldn't 'cut it' at work, or because we're agoraphobic.

Well to summarise.

I am size 10

I have postgrad quallys

I hate daytime TV

Whilst caring for 2 disabled people am currently undertaking a BSL course in the evenings,which cost £200

I do not possess a tracksuit.

well some people think working mum =no precious moments/child raised by stranger etc.these nasty stereotypes don't imbue sisterhood do they

SUre, SM, there are equally ugly assertions from the other side.

All a bit depressing and grim

yes - posters like x dont help

i want to know more about wohm and learn about different ways of doing things

x makes me want to scream about something i believe in....

It is sad really.

I think what gets people's backs up is the SEEMING self satisfaction with which Xenia asserts her views.She is so adamant which is why I am so [HMM] about her.i AM SURE SHE IS TOTALLY WINDING PEOPLE UP!I know both SAHM and WOHM and we all chat about our insecurities about being on both sides of the fence,I mean surely no-one can be so black and white?Thta is why I think she is a GOOD thing,cos of the extreme nuttiness.Like a McCain fan at an Obama celebration!!!!

This is what I find odd and slightly depressing. I know lots of WOHPs in real life and it's never occurred to me to think that they are 'bad' parents, much less that they might think I'm a 'bad' parent.

I suppose talkboards enable wild judgements because we're not looking each other in the eye, buying each other drinks, going to each other's parties etc etc

I haven't posted on this thread for a long time, since one poster said she'd rather her daughter was a sahm than a brain surgeon, an opinion that actually shocked me, for a variety of different reasons.

However I'm prepared to bet that the thread has gone something like this:

Sahms: You wohms are all unfeeling and your children will be emotionally deprived and we're not worried about dependency on men or poverty in old age because divorce will never happen to meeee and besides we're all far too busy being noble to think about squalid stuff like money and taking financial responsibility

Wohms: You sahms are all dimwitted leeches who gave up work because you earned peanuts and couldn't afford the childcare from your meager salaries. You will all end up on the poverty line when your husbands trade you in for younger models and you will be even more unemployable at that stage than you were before children, being middle-aged and without skills.

I imagine some more Xenia-bashing went on. Have I got this right?

bang on quattro.

there are no answers to this...and it isn't just about sahm/wohm/money....it's about personality types.

some women love being at home..enjoy it more than any powerful career they may have had, for some women, motherhood wasn't what they expected and they are more than happy to work 3 mornings a week in tesco for a break...me personally, i physically coulnd't have handed my baby over to a nursery at 3 months old...however, i have nothing but respect for the xenias of this world, she's "nailed it" as far as i can see, she's doing what she's happy with, and comfortable with her decisions....fantastic!

would i rather my dd be a sahm or a brain sergeon?.....i'd be happy that she had the choice...

Xenia has mentioned many times that she could not have lived well as a SAHM on her DHs teachers salary. I find this interesting as I think if her ExH worked in the private sector and moved up the teaching ranks surely he would have been on a reasonable salary?

If you get into the upper management in private secondary schools I believe salaries are in the 60-100k range. If you send your children to the private school you work in you are normally entitled to substantial fee discounts.

Therefore Xenia and her DH could have worked full time for 8-10 yrs before having children..enough time to buy a nice house on high dual income. Xenia could then have enjoyed a few years as a SAHM while her children were young. She could then have gone back to work fairly easily as the childcare would have been covered by H in the holidays.

Obviously there are a few counter arguments to my theory - Xenia may be in a profession where it is hard to take a career break, and Xenia has 5 children. However most people on Mumsnet probably have fewer children so maybe they would be able to be a SAHM for a few years while their H is a full time teacher.

Xenia has also chosen to live in London (i think) which is the most expensive place to live and where schools are most expensive. If she and her ex H had moved out of London before having children they would have been able to buy a bigger house and would possibly have had good state primary schools on their doorstep.

I would like to stress that my post is not a criticism of Xenia's choices as she has obviously done very well in her career and is really happy with children's schools etc..

I just feel that it would be possible for a Mumsnetter or any mother for that matter to be married to a full time teacher and take a career break while their children are young and still enjoy a reasonable quality of life.

I expect that if one's H is a teacher it is easier to go back to work when the children reach primary age as one parent will have the longer holidays..therefore surely it is good to have a H who is a teacher?!

I think getting into in-depth discussions about Xenia are pointless because the views she presents are so extreme. (And as someone pointed out, it may just be rabble rousing anyway - who knows what she does/thinks in real life).

I actually find Xenia quite a laugh. However, the thing that annoys me is that some MNers seem unable to differeniate between her and any other WOHP. I haven't seen Xenia's extreme views put forward by anyone else on this thread - just her.

As far as I can see, other WOHP are saying, yes, we're all for choice. Some peope, ,like Twinset, have stressed the importance of getting skilled and having the capacity to earn and be independent - but that's a more general thing, and surely no one could disagree with that anyway? It would really bother me if any of my kids started breeding before becoming economically independent - but that's a very different scenario from saying that all parents should be out at work full time all the time.

What really does wind people up on these threads is when people take their own individual circumstances and then extrapolate from that a general rule. eg I have seen several times: 'I stayed at home with my kids until they went to school,' and then following on: 'I think parents should stay at home til their kids go to school'.
Nonsense! Anyone who chooses to remain at home for XXX number of years - bully for them! Great that they have a choice. Great that they feel they have done what they wanted. But please don't therefore assume that a) it means anyone else should do what you have done or b) that your children have had a 'better' experience than they otherwise would.
BECAUSE NONE OF US CAN KNOW!!!
I worked part time while my kids were preschool, returning full time when the youngest had just turned 4. I can give you very clear evidence of the positives it's given me: I have been able to move to a senior position because I kept my hand in, I have kept up my full pension etc. What I can't say is that it's been 'better' for my children, because how can I possibly know how they would have turned out if I'd been at home 24/7??? I can't! My gut feeling is that they would have been no different - they are all well adjusted, happy, bright kids, so there is nothing glaringly obvious that makes me believe anything would be different.

I am absolutely for choice. If you can afford to have one parent at home all the time and one of you is happy to take that role - fine - do it.

If you both want to keep working, to a greater or lesser extent - fine, do it. No one is missing out on anything. It's all good!

We know teachers who survive on the husband's salary in London. It's not that easy but they do it. One even robbed a school travel fund because it was so hard with children at the fee paying school to keep up the Joneses and he was sent down, served time. In a way if you're on £30k a year it's better to put yourself amongst others who earn that not have your children educated with children whose parents are paying substantial sums in fees as people tend to be happy if they are a bit better off than those around them.

Of course we could live on very little. The things I like are reading, library (free), books, music etc but it's not as much fun. Also I wanted a baby at 22 not wait 13 years after marrying as my parents did to be able to afford various things first.

We know one teacher couple where they had 3 chidlren on virtually free places at the prep school where one parent worked adn then moved to the £20k+ a year school fee place the father was at and had free fees there (but in most private schools the teacher parent discounts are very low - I think it was 10% at Haberdashers where one of our chidlren went so it doesn't always follow) and we had school accommodation when I was first pregnant too which is another perk but had had a house elsewhere before so wanted to keep on the housing ladder.

But there is a huge difference even with the perks between being on that teacher salary level and earning say 10x that amount. I don't really see many teachers on £40 - £100k to be honest. Many many even in London are on £30k even if they head a department so it must largely depend on the school and if it's primary or secondary. Obviously ly heads can earn more but you can't easily get to be a head in the subject my children's father taught in.

But more important than the money is the pleasure from my work. I would not have been without that.

finally. DH is gone to do his 2 hours a fortnight, kids are all at school. This SAH mum has a morning of playing Crysis and beating the Boss monster to be getting on with
see, I never get bored.
Got Far Cry 2 to play after that and 10 seasons of Stargate SG-1 awaiting me.
Should take me up to nezt summer...

Xenia - don't worry about what other people are living on - your income suits you fine! I doubt I earn as much as you (I certainly don't have the £1000000 mortgage!!) but that's cool - we have a lovely life and as you say, work is about soooo much more interesting things than the money!!

i have a vivid imagination and i'm now picturing Xenia as Madonna. although i reckon Guy probably got more than £1m

Xenia in corsets with Boudicea-type metal tits.... yes!!

Go Xenia!!

NMC - sounds like a great morning.

Xenia - you are a larff.

I bet you turn into a comedy version of yourself on MN. I can't imagine you would be able to spout such views in the real world without people falling about laughing or punching you in the face.

Actually scrap that, now that I have the image of Xenia as Madonna (not the one with a halo) I expect she is so scary in RL that nobody would dare laugh at her face to face, they are all tugging their forlocks, bowing out of the room backwards and agreeing with everything she says.

Apart from that, have we, by and large, come to a concensus? People should do what they believe to be right for their family and they should be able to make their own choices without everybody worrying what everybody else should be doing too?

We have?? Case closed. No need to argue it anymore. .

(I've always wanted to do that)

findtheriver...that's the point though isn't it...you are completely happy with your decision and it's worked well for you and your family...it's the women that arn't happy with their lot, whether thats working, or staying at home.

darn. I get a morning to myself and dd is havibng seizures at school. This is the reason I could never comit toa high pwered job even if I want too. They are ringing taxi companies to find someone to bring her home. sigh.

"It's better to put yourself amongst others who earn that not have your children educated with children whose parents are paying substantial sums in fees as people tend to be happy if they are a bit better off than those around them.
"

Never have I read suck crashingly snobbish rubbish. I have friends who earn 10x what I do. Maybe I should stick with my own kind

(sorry Xenia, I keep on quoting you)

what happens if you marry above you? And dh's parents are rich? Tug forelock or ignore them? Hide in the kitchen when their rich friends are there or be yourself?
Mind you, whne they bang on about holidays I tend to glaze over.