to be deeply moved by visiting a truly "child-friendly" country and deeply saddened by the stark contrast with the UK

[hatwoman]

I am just back from Egypt and the warmth that complete strangers extended to my children and the pleasure they took from them moved me so much: waiters who played tricks on them - tickling their ears and then pretending they hadn;t done anything; carriage drivers who oh so carefully lifted them onto a carriage and let them take the reins; tourists from elsewhere in egypt who told them they were beautiful and asked if they could have a photo taken with them; restaurants who expect adults to bring their children to dinner (there are no "child-friendly" restaurants - becuase that implies ones that are child un-friendly); adults who talk to the children before us; adults whose small talk consisted of telling us all about their own children and how proud they are of them. it was absolutely lovely to meet so many people who clearly adored children and saw them for the important part of society that they are. I have spent a lot of time in egypt but this was my first visit with kids. it made me at once very happy but also sad - I think people in the UK used to be more like this and I rarely see it now.

that's really lovely to hear

Meh.

What a lovely holiday

of your trip.....egypt is one place I really want to visit at some point.

makes me want to go more now, and take the children, reading about your trip.

this why we go to eygpt every year.

Same in India.
Sometimes it was a little overpowering for ds1. Being blonde and cute and have all sorts of strangers come up and touch his cheeks, his hair, and want to pick him up and have their photo taken with him, even on OUR camera, lol, not theirs....

agree hatwoman. why do the brits hate kids? no other country comes to mind where the attitude is worse than ours.
we went to dubai years ago, dh and i went into the old town and was pleasantly surprised to see how lovely the dads were with their kids.

I dunno hatwoman, I like the sound of your trip to Egypt but I have to say - I lived in this town for 7 years and no-one ever talked to me, til I was pg. Now complete strangers, shop attendants, waitresses, etc., are all googy over ds, everywhere we go.

Rose tinted glasses though really. Eygpt also deems that women have no rights over their children, the wife and children 'belong' to the husband.

My friend is married to an egypian man.
Despite the fact that she is british she can only leave egypt to come home with her husbands permission. If she is travelling alone she has to get him to fill out some forms!!

She wants to leave him but won't because in egypt she has no rights to her children at all.

It sounds a lovely trip.There are still places in the UK like that as regards children though.

When I first came to the UK from the USA, I knew this woman who sent her son away to boarding school at 4 but let her labrador sleep with her in bed?

I found Egypt Claustrophobic.. and it is not very pleasant to have men looking at you and your child all the time and passing comment.

Whilst I would go back, I found it a bit much really.

I went to a market with my dd and it was very uncomfortable to the point where I turned and went back.

I find it's a generational thing. Quite often older people are soppy over children here. When my eldest 2 were newborns old people used to cross the street to see them and give me 'gold and silver' for them - ie 50p and a £1. Didn't happen with DS#2 - I think it was a tradition that died out.

I found that Portugal and Madeira were like that though. You knew that walking in any cafe/shop with 2 little blond moppets would have an instant impact

hatwoman "I think people in the UK used to be more like this and I rarely see it now." Not when I was a kid in the 60s and not when my kids were small in the 80s/90s.

my kids arent blonde, but i have found that everywhere in the middle east has this loving attitude to kids.

phdlife - I agree that having children does open some doors and more people talk to you than otherwise.

memoo - it's not rose-tinted glassess - I have worked on rights in the middle east for years. noting that there are a lot of people who like children is not for one second incompatable with acknowledging that there are serious short-comings. which I fully do.

OrmIrian I've had people give me money for ds - once when I was pg and once quite recently. tradish hasn't completely gone

hatwoman - guess it changes a bit when they're older, eh?

Sounds lovely.

Make yourself feel pretty about the UK with a trip to Prague with young childrn - believe me, they make the UK seem incredibly child-centred! (In our exerience anyway)

One of the bonuses of living in quite an ethnically diverse area of London is that there are lots of people/places who are very child friendly - we regularly take DS to a cafe where several of the staff make a point of coming and saying hello to DS, one even gives him special little treats made for him. When he was born two of our neighbours and the family who run our newsagents shop gave him pressies, and the newsagents give him free bananas quite regularly! DS knocks over stuff in their shop and causes chaos and the guy whose shop it is just laughs, he thinks DS is terrific.

Had a bizzare experience a few weeks ago in Bristol.

Touring musicians - bedouins - were taking DS photo en masse. OK, he's cute, and has blue eyes, but about 15 males were taking his photo on their phone?

hatwoman I was in Portugal for half term and almost posted the exact same thread as you.

The Brits do hate kids and the baby boomers seem to really dislike them.

I think that the problem is that a lot of parents let their DCs behave badly in public places and still expect people to think they are lovely!

When I lived in The Gambia, we used to take DS1 out to restaurants (proper ones, not cafes or burger bars). He was then under the age of 1. We used to pass him to the waiters who would take turns to carry him about and amuse him while we had our meal. It was great

The problem here is that if a waiter did the same, people would probably start accusing him of being a paedophile

memoo, I live in egypt and as far as I know the mother is normally granted custody of the children until they are aged 14 when they pass over to the fathers care - your friend should definitely speak to a lawyer to find out her rights. So sad to think of someone being unhappy but afraid to leave

i find people very overbearing when it comes to ds - i appreciate that some would call it friendly but at the checkout in the supermarket the other day I turned to find a woman putting her half-eaten bar of chocolate in my 18 month old son's mouth - tiny example of how people overstep the mark with me constantly

Someone said to me once "The French love kids, the british love dogs"