to be deeply moved by visiting a truly "child-friendly" country and deeply saddened by the stark contrast with the UK

[hatwoman]

I am just back from Egypt and the warmth that complete strangers extended to my children and the pleasure they took from them moved me so much: waiters who played tricks on them - tickling their ears and then pretending they hadn;t done anything; carriage drivers who oh so carefully lifted them onto a carriage and let them take the reins; tourists from elsewhere in egypt who told them they were beautiful and asked if they could have a photo taken with them; restaurants who expect adults to bring their children to dinner (there are no "child-friendly" restaurants - becuase that implies ones that are child un-friendly); adults who talk to the children before us; adults whose small talk consisted of telling us all about their own children and how proud they are of them. it was absolutely lovely to meet so many people who clearly adored children and saw them for the important part of society that they are. I have spent a lot of time in egypt but this was my first visit with kids. it made me at once very happy but also sad - I think people in the UK used to be more like this and I rarely see it now.

Hat - if you like Islamic Architecture, go to Andalucia...the Al-Hambra is amazing....I cried!

A word before you go to spain though hatwoman... avoid child friendly chiringuitos (sp?). Ds this summer was really excited because his spaghetti bolognaise tasted EXACTLY like those he got at nursery in the uk

I want to go to Andalucia as well

i have to say i feel glad we live in the uk so9 people can ignore dd. If they started messing with her ears I think she may spit at them or kick them...

the most amazing i've seen is Lahore. al-hambra is definitely on my list...(isn;t it terrible how you come home from one holiday and start planning the next....this one was particularly exciting though as it's the first time for about 6 years we've done something other than get the ferry to Brittany and rent a house and now I'm all inspired....)

So are there any countries which are truly child-friendly but those who choose to lead a different life are equally tolerated?

yes, been to Al-hambra 3 times and still not enough. Also been to N. India, and took away brilliant memories and piccies of the Islamic art and architecture from there. Can easily become a real bore on this subject......amongst others.

Otherside - well you could try Yorkshire. Weather terrible, though.

I used to live there. My ex-BF used to think Yorkshire should be an independent country!

And we went on our family holiday in Yorkshire this summer [jealous of those who admired Islamic architecture emoticon]

you know you're in Yorkshire. The M1 is cobbeled......

and along with being child-friendly comes the interfering busybodies "takes a village". Woe betide you taking yoru child out withotu a hat in Russia or any of the ex-soviet states in any temperature less than 25 degrees (centigrade). The babushkas Hat Police will make your life not worth living.

Well we live in supposedly unfriendly London. More or less everyone is exceptionally nice and helpful when out with DD who's 15 months. Just make sure we go to fairly baby friendly places but even going into the City to meet DH or friends with her people are generally nice. Have been to Spain, Italy and France with her. Spain and Italy people were fab as you'd expect but not nearly as good as the UK in terms of baby changing, loos etc. France OK but not great. Haven't been to Paris with her but friends say it is a bloody awful place to have/take a baby (and some of them are Parisians) (not that I'm generalising of course

I have met Parisians whilst on holiday in Brittany. I wrote a thread about it back in January upon my return.

Parisians, IMO, are a complete nightmare and very child unfriendly - and that's when they are on holiday, away from home. What Paris must be like, I don't know!

Our family will be going to EuroDisney early next year. I'll find out then! Surely Paris and its inhabitants can't be that bad? I can't see how Disney would have chosen Paris if it were that child unfriendly.

I give up with my own ramblings. As I said, I'll find out soon enough!

Parisians don't go to Disney much so don't worry about that (although we are going to go on Sunday, for DD's 4th birthday ).

The kind of Parisian you meet in Brittany is not, I repeat not, typical of all Parisians. Only a certain sort of Parisian holidays in Brittany [knowing emoticon] - a very conformist, Catholic, live-by-the-rule-book sort of Parisian who bring their children up in an authoritarian manner .

I take the children around in Paris and it is fine. But I don't mix with those conformist sorts if I can possibly help it...

fair enough Anna but just walk past the door of a cafe or restaurant and they start pulling faces. More often than not they will tell you to your face "I hope this one can behave!" before you are even sat.
Not to mention the people who look through your child/baby like if he was invisible, sit right beside you whilst the room is empty and light up a cigarette.(mind you no more smoking these days).
Oh I do miss Paris but how to live there with all those Parisians?????????????

sorry forgot that my point actually is that my experience of having a child in London is much more positive.
We took DS everywhere and even in the poshest restaurants, we were never met with apriori resentment and there would always be someone to congratulate him on his good behaviour.

The smoking is certainly completely over, everywhere.

Honestly and truthfully, I never encounter any kind of criticism or unpleasant look when taking the children to cafés or restaurants here. Nothing. I'm completely relaxed about it. It must depend on where you go.

Have to agree with slim22, I've had some pretty unpleasant experiences in Paris with children, particularly in smarter places. I wouldn't say London is universally welcoming but based on my experience, it's a lot friendlier than Paris.