To have reported these builders ?

[beanieb]

At lunch time I walked to the nearest shops to work and passed a site where there are retirement homes being built. As I walked by a couple of builders whistled and shouted 'oy' . I noticed a sign outside the site saying something about 'considerate construction' so rang it immediately! I wasn't rude but I did point out that shouting at people walking by was hardly considerate.

Why do I feel so guilty then!? MEH!

sorry FOTW-couldn't resist

I did answer you. Open your eyes. Hurray!

Ummm... really? Are you sure? These questions right here? (will number them fore ease of answering for you )

1. imagine you walk into your new GPs surgery and as you do, the doctor wolf whistles and looks you up and down before giving you your examination. Would you also be happy with this? If not, why not?

1. Do you not find it patronising that we accept this behaviour from builders but would be offended if it happened in, say, our local bank from one of the tellers?

3.Would you feel happy if your husband/ brother/ son was doing the same thing? Honestly?

Am on the edge of my seat waiting for your reply

No you didn't answer me about it specifically, instead you talked about other points.

You clearly think what they did was ok.

My foster daughter wouldn't. So I acted to protect her.

Just like someone should have done for you.

Haven't read the thread but in response to LEM's point at the beginning it has nothing to do with class.

I don't like being beeped by white van men and neither do I like it when the Managing Director at work stares at my chest.

I am sensing that some people on this thread would infer that I am uptight, perhaps even frigid because of this.

Whatever.

lol J20, I obviously have more issues than I initially realised an hour ago!

FOTW-sorry- i agree with your questions I have to try very hard not to get too drawn in to some of the discussions on here as some of the posts would make me very pi**ed off too.

Yup! Shouldn't have come back really. For all of 2 mins, the 'I win!' really did make me feel better lol

chequers - do you mean me? how did you know

Sorry, I meant exasperatedmummy, which of course is you LEM. I recognised you from a dog thread a little while ago then saw a thread about a job app when you said you'd namechanged so I jnew it was you for definite. I still always think of you as LEM

What they do in their free time is up to them but they are at work.

Kerrymum, you say that the distance makes it ok. Well why don't we have office workers hanging out of their 4th floor windows shouting and whistling at women? Because they'd be fired. Why are builders allowed to continue? Are they a special case? The construction industry itself has come up with a code of practise that outlaws it.

Some women aren't offended by it, but some are. I respect the fact that you aren't bothered by it, why can't you respect the fact that it does cause genuine distress to some women?

I've been "recognised" i feel like i have properly "arrived" in mumsnetland

No Kerrymum - I was not followed, I was not flashed at, I was not raped.

I know what it feels like to be followed and flashed at and assaulted.

I also know that builders shouting and whistling at me, whatever sex they are, makes me feel lilke a tit and I don't like other people making me feel like a tit.

If your solution to not feeling like a tit because of the rude behaviour of other's is to stop being so uptight, or to have a go back at them, then I am sorry but I can't be that kind of person

I have broken it up into pieces to help you understand.

While it may not offend you, and while you* may not feel it is in any way abusive it is not reasonable for you to deny that it does offend or upset other people.

Given your own experience of things which were offensive and damaging for you, you should at the very least think about the need to have some understanding of the boundaries that other people they have, and how invading those boundaries may make them feel.

No - rape and being whistled are not the same but the different feelings that people feel about these different violations of persoanl space are equally valid.

Oy beanieb, I'm on your side in this debate - sheesh

KM - it is interesting that you think that "If you have self respect than it shouldn't bother you in the slightest." Because I think precisely the opposite - ie that it is only if you have self respect for yourself as a full equal member of society that it becomes offensive.

And frankly, if some sexist fuckwits lose their jobs, that's okay actually. One step further along the road to sexual equality IMO

Sorry Quatro! Mistaken Identity!

OH and have been thinking, if I was a builder there is no way I would shout or whistle at passers by. It's just rude!

Why don't you like it when your children are there?

Kerrymum - you are still showing very little empathy for the way that this kind of behaviour makes some women feel.

Just because you have worse experiences to compare it to, doesn't mean you are right to tell other women how they shoud feel about it. Or that they should just deal with it in teh way you do.

If a woman feels somehow upset by being whistled at in public, then it is very wrong of you to negate the way they feel and justify it by saying you
a. don't feel the same and
b. have had much worse experiences

Thats like me saying to someone that they shouldn't be upset about having a leg amputated because I had both mine taken off.

and in conclusion:

If the sign hadn't have been there then I wouldn't have complained. Builders whistling at me makes me feel like a tit but most times I have no number to call. I excercised my right to and even though I still felt like a tit when it happened, being able to report it and be taken seriously made me feel better in the long run. So I thank that company for allowing me to do so!

"There is this ASSUMPTION here that I find completely distateful that builders are cretins and doctors, office workers, etc. would never do such things."

You really haven't understood the arguments, have you.

There is no such assumption from the people who object to builders wolf-whistling. The assumption that builders are cretins, is generally held by people who belong to the "they're only builders having fun, let them wolf-whistle" school of thought. Those of us who understand that builders are as capable of good manners, sensitivity and discretion as any doctor or office worker, object to the wolf whistling precisely because we know that they are perfectly capable of being civilised and are not in fact cretins. We don't give them that let-out.

Oh and we also know that office workers etc. are as capable of behaving like neanderthals as any other group of blokes together.

I can't make up my mind if you are deliberately pretending to misunderstand this point to muddy the waters and to draw the discussion on to one of class prejudice, or if you genuinely don't understand what's been said on the thread.

At the risk of stepping into a complete vipers nest I have to say I agree with Custy & Kerry and cant see how you see someone whistling and saying oy is "designed to make you feel inferiour" (unless you are a complete munter that is)

Im guessing a lot of other people have looked at the tone of this thread and gone "ohhh I dont agree but Im not going there"

I was terribly shy when I was younger but it never bothered me tbh I just put my head down and had a laugh, of course you are free to register your disapproval but hoping they lose their jobs seems awfully harsh to me. I agree totally if they were saying "id like a peice of that" or "get your tits out" then they are being abusive but a whistle? honestly - I am sure there are plenty of far more constructive outlets for your efforts if you really want to combat abuse.

Have you really never looked at a man when you were younger and with your mates and gone "phwoar"

WilyWombat - not once have I said I would hope they lose their jobs.

Your munter comment is rdiculous. Are you saying that people who behave like this are only being rude if they are whistling at a munter, or that these people don't whistle at 'munters'?

And well said LittleWhizzingBella

I have looked at men and thought 'phwoar' but I would never say it to a strangrs face. What a bizzare thought!