To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

and multiple children even.

But morning paper they would have aspirations if they weren't marginalised and then maybe their own children would break the cycle

How many young mums do you see at NCT antenatal classes, baby massage etc?

Actually, I think YABU.

I agree we should, on the whole, be discouraging teenage pregnancy. Most teenagers do fall pregnant accidentally. Likewise, most are not in stable relationships nor are they able to support themselves.

Of course there are teenagers who want to fall pregnant but even within that group most are doing so for all the wrong reasons.

There are always going to be some teenagers who are emotionally mature enough, commited enough and financially secure enough to enter into parenthood but IMO they are few and far between.

The majority are just kids themselves who either have not been given solid enough sex-ed to understand that their actions may have consequences or who have not been given enough education and support period to understand that they have many choices and adventures ahead of them.

How many young mums do you see at NCT antenatal classes, baby massage etc?

None, because these are middle class pursuits engaged in by crazed career women with too much energy. How exactly would it help a teenage mother? I don't think an NCT cake bake is going to raise aspirations much.

I agree with thisisyesterday.

There is too much support for teenage mothers. In their little teenage heads, some even think getting knocked up is a reasonable way of getting their own home and some pocket money from the state.

There is no stigma attached to teenage pregnancies. Nobody is ashamed to be pregnant at 13, these girls don't get ostracised from society or anything - hence, it is hyperbole to talk of 'stigma'. As OP says, lots of teenagers want to be pregnant.

The 'they do it to get houses' view is misleading

I don't believe everything is handed to them on a plate.

Am I right in thinking you can't get a council house until you are 18?

Is 19 to young ? just wondered I had my first dd at 19 ..still with her dad ..maybe I should have kept my legs crossed till I was 30 with a career and a nice semi

I disagree,Rose. I think they need to have the aspirations before they fall pregnant.

It's not about age, Random. It's about emotional maturity and financial stability.

You may have had them at 19, I certainly didn't.

roseability my cousin was housed in social housing before being given a flat at under 18.

random, I think you are probably one of the exceptions that have been pointed out already on this thread.
big difference between beiong 13/14 and being 19.

and a big difference in getting pregnant after a drunken escapade with some bloke, than getting poregnant with someone you love and intend to stay with.

please don't take this as an attack on teenage mums, it isn't at all

In terms of health I actually think we should be doing more to support people so they can have their children younger, I think it's better to have a baby at 19 than 39.

'In their little teenage heads'

It is easy to patronise teenagers when you have left that stage of development.

My parents took such a view and it led to much misery and a poor relationship even today. Shouldn't we try to understand?

roseability - I did not say all teenage mums get pregnant to get homes of their own and live off the state. I said some do. And that is not 'misleading'. It is a fact.

At 19, I was pissed most nights at uni (not good nor mature) sleeping around but always careful (pill and condoms) Dreaming of graduating and travelling. Just about managing to look after myself. I would not have been a good mother.

A lot of the problem is the welfare benefits system. A system which was originally designed to be a safety net for those truly in need has enabled certain elements of society to turn that system into a way of life. So teenagers get pregnant, knowing that, if their own family will not support them, the state will. So many families split up, sometimes for fairly spurious reasons, knowing that the state will step in and enable the family to survive as two units instead of one. I have a friend who decided that she no longer loved her husband and wanted to end the marriage. She has moved out into private rented accommodation, paid for by tax credits. She could not have done this if it were not for the benefits system.

How many teenagers would actually get pregnant if they knew they would have to support their child without any help from the state? Those that do get pregnant deliberately often have self-esteem issues, leading them to want a baby because it will love them unconditionally. I can't see how further sex eduction is going to stop that.

I'm not professing to have any answers, because, obviously, if you remove the benefits system for such events, it is the children who suffer. It would be interesting to know what the Dutch system provides in the case of teenage pregnancies. Perhaps the answer lies therein.

I think we understand why, but are just too spineless to do anything about it.

myredcardigan - thus my point about the term 'teenager' being automatically inflammatory with connotations.

any mother of any age can be emotionally or economically unready for motherhood

I don't think lack of understanding is the problem.

for most teenagers, most of the time, getting pregnant is a terrible, life limiting situation, not just for them but for their children. We should be doing all we can to give our children a chance to exercise all the choices open to them.

wanting a baby is a natural feeling for women, it's quite powerful in teenage years

including the choice not to spread their legs

We are humans, with advanced intelligence, not mere animals, SEA. We don't have to give in to all of our urges.

So why in some cultures and other eras was/is it acceptable?

Babies used to be born in wedlock. Now there are many families who have not know that status for several generations.

Wanting to stay out all night, drink til you puke and have sex with really unsuitable people are also very strong teenage urges (as i very dimly remember). This doesn't mean it is a 'good' thing which should be encouraged, or simply tolerated, just because it is 'natural'.

but i'd prefer to be a young grandmother than an old scaggy one