To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

"Yes, boy could not have sex until he marries but that is not going to happen, is it?"

no one mentioned marriage

"The girl could also remember to take her pills, but let's say whatever contraception they cooked up failed and she is now pregnant."

no lets not, lets say theywere both better educated, he double wrapped, didnt go in for one night stands

"Once the girl is pregnant:"

oh go on then

"Girl gets to decide whether they will BOTH be parents, while boy has NO choice on the matter. "
he had a choice (4th time) if theywere both better educated, he double wrapped, didnt go in for one night standsm she was on the pill, he kept it in his pants.

ny consensting to sex if there is a pregnancy and child he has a responsability - as he consented to sex

"no the boy had a choice to use
And then you expect him to comply to the girl's will and stick around to play happy families. "

no the relationship with the child is seperate form that of the relationship with the mother. the child shoul not be denied a father becuase of father and mothers fuckwittedness

"If instead he says "Wait a minute, I am not the one who decided to be a parent, in fact, I told her I didn't want this. I will now go to university and then focus on a career", he is a spineless, immature, irresponsible excuse for a human being. "

maybe he is a stupid cock breath who should have thought about that before he got his dick out

"I find this unfair. If the girl decides to have a baby against the express wishes of the father, then she has consciously chosen to be a single mother. "

i find it totally fair he consented to the possibility by having sex.

spicemonster - I forgot to say that you misunderstood me. I am not saying "Boys should be excused from fatherhood duties if and only if the contraception fails". (That would be impossible to determine, as you said.)

In such debates, it is common to talk about the extreme case so that we can see if we can at least agree upon that. (ex: "I'm against abortion" "What about rape resulting in pregnancy?")

I am surprised to see that even in this obvious case of no fault, there are those who say the teenage boy should suck up and cancel his future plans if the girl decides she wants to have the baby.

maybe she had plans but cannot countenance abortion

Those are the consequences of getting his willy out.

If the girl was under 16, the consequence would be a place on the sex offenders' register.

sucky - Your understanding of "choice" is limited to the sex itself.

Why does boy get no choice re fatherhood? Girl does get choice re motherhood.

"as he consented to sex"

But he did not consent to baby.

'Sex' and 'baby' are not one and the same. One does not inevitably lead to the other. There is choice.

My point is that it is unfair to give that choice only to the girl and to say the boy has to obey her wishes.

its not a choice for every girl - that is a huge assumption on your part

if he didn't want babies he should have thought about that before the sex. this isn't a limited idea - its a counter argument

'Ho ho ho at "you do this on every thread", by the way. What is it I do, expat? Corner you with undeniable logic so you can't even answer a straight question? '

Keep flattering yourself, Cote.

Here's some more rope, in fact.

Go on then, you're actually one of the most entertaining acts on here these days, I'm quite sad to say.

'John Adams' just started. Excellent acting.

TTFN.

The boy has two minutes of activity, the girl gets 9 months and beyond.

That is just nature. It has nothing to do with fairness.

expat i am the most entertaining, how very dare you

Consenting to sex and consenting to a baby are one and the same thing. No contraceptive (except putting the condom or pill between the girl's knees) is 100% effective.

The notion that the boy did not anticipate pregnancy is exactly the same for the girl. It is the girl that is held holding the baby because it is a 9 month thing for her not a wham bam and offsky.

Of course we mustn't forget that some girls pressurise boys into sex too. And a girl who has sex with an underage boy ought to be just as likely to be prosecuted as vice versa. I know that where there's not a big differential between ages the police aren't usually interested in pursuing the case though.

My dd had a girl in her year group who from the age of 16 was shagging about and it was common knowledge that she tried to have sex with 14/15 year old boys.

Is there such a thing as an underage boy?

Squeaky, the age of consent is 16

(in England and Wales)

I have a feeling that age of consent laws only apply to maidens women.

Why on earth do you think that Squeaky?

Why not?

From Wikipedia:

"the age of consent only applied to women (consequently, all amendments to the law also only applied to women). The wording was along the lines of "It shall be deemed illegal to ravage a maiden who is not of age"""

think you're a little out of date squeaky. The age of consent applies to both genders

Carrying a baby inevitably gives you choice, that's why my dss will be given the same warnings as my dd.

FFS this thread has stopped talking about teenage parents as is focusing entirerly on unprotected sex. Perhaps we could widen the loop a little to include older women (20-30) who knowingly have 1 night stands and may also be single mothers who don't work and never had. Don't tell me this doesn't happen because I know first hand it does. Please please please do not relate teenage pregnancy as the only pregnancys that encounter unportected or ill thought out sex.