To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

expat - You didn't answer my question.

You wouldn't forcefully prevent a girl from having an abortion if she doesn't want to be a mother but you are all for forcing a boy to be a father (or else he should never have sex).

Why the double standard?

'You wouldn't forcefully prevent a girl from having an abortion if she doesn't want to be a mother but you are all for forcing a boy to be a father (or else he should never have sex).

Why the double standard? '

I don't agree with abortion, FWIW.

Abortion should never be used as birth control!

Choices should not be made only after the oopsie. They both make their choices when they have sex.

As somebody else said, if a man doesn't want to get a girl pregnant he can not cum inside her and use a condom and refuse to have sex with a girl unless her trusts her 100% not to get pregnant.
The truth is these lads don't give a shit if we're honest they know their lives aren't ruined and nobody's going to call them to account.
What about the mother's of these boys, where are they ?

I didn't ask if you would have an abortion.

If a girl who got pregnant by accident wants an abortion, would you want to prevent her from getting one, effectively forcing her to become a mother?

I am assuming your answer to the above is "No".

Still, if a boy got a girl pregnant by accident and wants an abortion, and the girl refuses & keeps the baby, you would force him to be a father.

Why the double standard?

(And yes, I will ask the same question until you stop dancing around the issue and give a straight answer)

Nobody said abortion should be used as birth control. We are talking about accidents - i.e. failed contraception.

How would you prove that cote? He's going to say it's failed contraception if he can walk away, even if he didn't bother with anything.

It's unworkable.

'I am assuming your answer to the above is "No".'

You assume much.

And I refuse to be drawn out by you so you can try to prove what it an incorrect point.

End of.

You do this on every thread when someone disagrees with you and it's a dull and tiresome strategy.

Adios.

Abortion is not the answer to an oopsie. If the girl/her family/boy/his family don't want the baby, she can give it up for adoption - there is a huge demand for adopted babies.

No, expat did not answer my question, although I asked it repeatedly. I suspect the reason is that she realizes I have a point but is too proud to admit it.

And now that she has flounced off, we shall never hear her say so.

Ho ho ho at "you do this on every thread", by the way. What is it I do, expat? Corner you with undeniable logic so you can't even answer a straight question?

What was your question, Cote, that Expat refused to answer?

Abortion is of course a possible answer "to an oopsie". Why on earth should it not be? Girl realizes she is pregnant at 5 weeks, embryo is removed, all is back to normal.

Adoption is also a possibility, if the girl is so inclined.

The point I am trying to make here is that it is a gross injustice to force a teenage boy into parenthood, against his express wishes. Sure, if she really wants to be a mother at that point in time, with a guy who doesn't want the baby, nobody is going to force her into having an abortion. (Although this is very unwise, imho)

However, it is unreasonable to expect the teenage boy to hang around and be a father to that baby, just because the condom tore or the pills failed and this girl he had a one night stand with decided she wants a baby.

"His education and career are no more important than the girls."

Girl gets make decision on her life (deciding to keep baby). It is only fair that boy should have this right - give financial support required by law, but otherwise move to another city, go to university, etc.

if we focussed on prevention and education then maybe your point would be moot cote.

re fathers. either they have rights of they dont.

as it stands if the boy wants the girl to have an abortion and she doesn't - its the girls body and her choice

same the other way

he has no rights until a child is born.

once that child is born, he shouldn't be able to deny that child of its father - its whole life, becuase he didn't want it in the firs place

maybe with better education and prevention, he would have kept his cock in his pants or wrapped his willy and discussed what contraception the girl was using before sex.

Here is the question:

You wouldn't forcefully prevent a girl from having an abortion if she doesn't want to be a mother but you are all for forcing a boy to be a father (or else he should never have sex).

Why the double standard?

sucky - That was the whole point of this thread. The need for education. Which OP thought was patronising.

I don't really understand why you think that the boy should be let off scot-free.

He is 50% of the parentage. He may well have pressurised the girl into unprotected sex. At the moment that oopsie was confirmed, are you suggesting it is then a level playing field and both parties should have equal rights?

The equal rights come just before they have sex. They should both take responsibility for the oopsie, and to see through the pregnancy. Abortion is not the answer. If he doesn't agree to the oopsie, he shoudl call for an abortion, is that what you are saying?

I would suggest that the best outcome is adoption, should the extended family not wish to take on the baby as their own child.

Abortion - no, no, no. It is not birth control. It is acceptable in line with the abortion act (if only it were followed), but not for birth control (incl. contraceptive failure).

If a couple is not willing to have a baby or give it up for adoption, they should not have sex.

my anwser to your question
once that child is born, he shouldn't be able to deny that child of its father - its whole life, becuase he didn't want it in the firs place

maybe with better education and prevention, he would have kept his cock in his pants or wrapped his willy and discussed what contraception the girl was using before sex.

if and when a male has equal rights over termination or no - then your point can be discussed.

Not wanting to be a mother (ie getting in teh way of future shagging) is not an excuse for an abortion. She should do the decent thing and see the pregnancy through (without alcohol, tobacco and narcotics) and give the baby up for adoption.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was advocating denial of paternity.

Sure, he will forever be the genetic father of the baby. But it is unreasonable to force him into the fatherhood role - care for baby, spend weekends with him, teach him to walk, etc.

What I am saying is not a radically new look into teenage parenthood. Many teenage boys do this - say "I don't want a baby, but if you insist on having it, then don't expect me to stick around"

I am only saying that it is unreasonable to shout abuse at them for this.

think i answered your Q twice.

if a boy created a kid - then he should look after the kid in agreement with the mum of kid.

your argument is (AFAIU) that becuase the boy has no rights re abortion as its the girls body then he should be able to fuck off bcause he never had a choice.

his choice was to keep it in his pants , double wrap and ask the girl what additional contraception she was taking

his choice was not to have a drunken screw
a one night stand

to be in a relationship and learn more about each other.

a quick drunken fuck underneath the slide on the park is no excuse to say that they aren't having anything to do with the baby if it is born.

there was choice here. there was.

As much as I don't agree with SMC's presentation, I totally agree with her message. Very clear.

He has a choice and as far as I can tell there are plenty of boys who go off without a backward glance.

And talking of not answering points, you still haven't responded to my point that your suggestion is entirely unworkable.

Yes, boy could not have sex until he marries but that is not going to happen, is it? The girl could also remember to take her pills, but let's say whatever contraception they cooked up failed and she is now pregnant.

Once the girl is pregnant:

Girl gets to decide whether they will BOTH be parents, while boy has NO choice on the matter.

And then you expect him to comply to the girl's will and stick around to play happy families. If instead he says "Wait a minute, I am not the one who decided to be a parent, in fact, I told her I didn't want this. I will now go to university and then focus on a career", he is a spineless, immature, irresponsible excuse for a human being.

I find this unfair. If the girl decides to have a baby against the express wishes of the father, then she has consciously chosen to be a single mother.

no one mentioed marriage.