To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

I agree expat. It's very odd. I am British by birth but didn't grow up here and I don't get the mindset of a lot of people.

Perhaps I should move to another country

Of course some people will be evicted but nowhere near the number in the 90's which is a bloody shame because I have been saving dutifully waiting for the big crash which seems to be on hold whilst labour bails out the feckless.
You have to ignore a years worth of letters and 2 court appearances to get evicted and that is a fact.

Your concern for other people's financial ruin is charming katie

Well said Mumof2,

one of the best mum's I know is a teenager.

That said I know a lot of teenage Mum's both socially as well as through my work and can only think of one that choose to get pregnant when she did.

And I think that is a shame, as it is such a life changing thing to happen that it is better to have choosen to have your life change so dramatically.

'You have to ignore a years worth of letters and 2 court appearances to get evicted and that is a fact.'

But a private renter who doesn't pay up can be out in 60 days.

At least, up here.

My own MIL does the 'poor thing' routine on both her older son and her daughter and believe you me, it's done them no favours and they've grown to adulthood with endless excuses.

At present, SIL - who became a mum at 18 - left an abusive relationship but left her kids with her ex-partner. She refused to go to Women's Aid or to ever contact the police regarding his abuse.

She was on Income Support, but that got cancelled as her ex claimed, quite rightly, that she was no longer a lone parent.

So she went on JSA, but she said working sucked and so now her plan is to get full custody of the kids, which she won't be able to do because Scottish courts aren't so quick to turn over kids only to the mother and her ex will fight her, and get back on IS (which again won't happen because they changed the rules and her eldest is in secondary school and her other son just a year behind him).

She has no more interest in finishing the college course she was 3 years into.

And all MIL does is 'Poor thing. She has no confidence.'

FIL's like, 'So that means she never works in her whole adult life but it's good enough for my 64-year-old arse when I've no cartilage in my left knee and am on insulin?'

K, c'mon, the man does have a point!

People keep saying about education and extra after school activities everytime we have a similar thread.

You know i ve worked for Childline and every afternoon we had phone calls from crying children and pregnant teens and guess what ? most of them were having piano lessons and french. You can not ever be sure that your dd wont do it. We think that we can plan and control our childrens lives but we cant.

Mumof2andabit, this thread is fullof stereotypes and not just about teenage mums.
'women in their 30's need IVF' and 'MC women in their 30s go to NCT coffees and show off their baked cakes'

Just as you said 30 something women rather than 20 something women or 40 something women.

As I said on this thread yesterday, it is a statistical fact that most (not all) teenage mums will be unable to financially support themselves and will then struggle for the next 5yrs at least. I strongly believe that better education and a change to the way we educate teenagers from 14 could make not getting pregnant far more attractive.

I don't aim for charming, I aim to be rich

a correction in house prices is long overdue, though. policies, banks and borrowers fuelled a bubble that was unfortunately for many entirely unsustainable, ditto consumer spending.

But nobody is suggesting that teenage mums are bad mums!!! Just that there is so much world out there for them to experience that they (in the main) should be encouraged to wait.

Oh and I have no such belief that it could not happen to my girls. My hope is that I'll instill in them such a thirst for what life has to offer and the confidence to be happy and in control of their bodies and contraceptives that they will try to avoid it at all costs. That's not the same as denying it could/would ever happen.

Being pedantic - I said 30something as a generalization not a sterotype as I am a 20something now but will forever be a "teenage mum". And the sterotype of a teenage mum is so strong and hurtful with people not even realizing how much offence and hurt they have caused. Comments such as "my! Don't look young to have children" people (mainly old ladies in my experience) giving dirty looks and tufting. It's a discussion on here but in rl it's plain hurtful.

Also I don't especially on mn why having a child is to so many people not comparable to travelling or working. I will never be prouder of any of my achievments than I am of my children.

I have to say I experienced some of that mumof2 and I was 24 I actually gave up BF my first because I was in a cafe and 2 old women made a nasty comment about me not being able to make up for a life of deprivation by BF.

I agree of course expat but schadenfreude is never attractive. And if you're expecting property to make you rich katie, you'll go the same way as all the about-to-be evicted people you're rubbing your hands in glee over now. Property should be about a roof over your head and security, not a way of making money.

Anyway, this is sooooooooooooo off-topic

mumof2andabit - I expect I'll get people thinking I'm my DS's granny by the time he's at school Every mother gets judged, trust me.

Well the whole derision thing is pointless. Why make them(you) feel bad after the event. The key is to discourage it from happening in the first place.

And I'm not saying that because of the benefit thing but rather because I feel/see them missing out on sooo much.

oh, no, i'm not expecting property at all.

even with a big fall, we'd never get a mortgage. it's a moot point for us.

just wish the private tenancy laws were revised is all.

How horrible for you katie! What gives them the right? Am always surprised by peoples blantant rudeness.

No, I don't compare my children to my education or my travelling at all. Like you they are my world. But, I had such an amazing time doing all those things before having kids. I wouldn't want it back. But I think I'm a more contented person now because of it.

I already have an education and we will travel when the kids are older. Each to their own as to which way round you do it!

some people really aren't travellers.

just like university is not for all people.

horses for courses.

for me it's not so much about age so much as it is about making an informed choice from the state of stability.

Exactly, Expat.

It's not about travelling or anything in particular. It's about encouraging young people to reach their potential.

What if that is having a happy family?

In the end people do similar things but at diferent phases/stages.
You can study and travel before children, or with them (difficult but doable) or after they are a bit older. There are many ways to live your life.

And regarding responsibility there are many things to make you guilty as a paarent.
I ve smoked for 20 years before had my DC so i am an older mum but you could say that i ve been irresponsible. Or perhaps you wouldn't because i own my house.
Parenting is not easy or guilt-free whatever your age.

Well...I'm just not sure that's the case for the vast majority of mums who fall pregnant young.

Nor do I think that most can offer either emotional or financial stability at that age.

FWIW, I wouldn't think a 35yr old woman who couldn't offer those things was being any more sensible. Her age really has nothing to do with it.