To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

you are so eloquent aren't you.

I think you are right though....... to a point..... so how do you propose getting them to do that?

Raise their self esteem.

Surround them with adults who will take an interest in their lives (parents, schools, youth workers etc.)

Encourage them to do extra-curricular activities

Keep them away from booze

Have higher expectations for them.

'The poor conditions and lack of security of private rental accomodation are ignored.'

Yes, if you are having problems paying your mortgage, our tax money is there to help you.

But if you are a private renter and you start struggling to pay your rent and you don't qualify for housing benefit with its ridiculously low threshold, well, you're fucked.

If I don't pay my rent, I get evicted pretty damn quick. If homeowner doesn't pay their mortgage, well, let's help them keep their asset on my taxes.

SP you are right and middle class children have all those opportunities. Unfortunately those things cost money and when they are provided free of charge to people on benefits/tax credits it'll cause flaming up roar on here, AIBU to think that I should get my DD's riding lessons paid for too, you can just see it now.
And it's probably cheaper to pay for the council flats and benefits anyway because if it fails we pay twice.

"what's the bloody point of becoming a hairdresser, waitress, sales assistant when minimum wage isn't enough to cover your busfare and a night out ?"

That is an insult to every man and woman working on minimum wage

And goes to show that support for teenage mothers is not too low, but quite the contrary. It is so high that it is considered a rational alternative to working for one's living.

"what's the bloody point of becoming a hairdresser, waitress, sales assistant when minimum wage isn't enough to cover your busfare and a night out ?"

The point is that most of us start out on a crappy wage when we leave school/uni, it's not handed to us on a plate, you work your way up and earn your way in life! I started my first job at 17 and earned £50 a week.

Read the rest of the post instead of cherry picking to suit your own argument.
Yes Meg and I bet you lived at home on £50 a week, what if that hadn't been an option, what if you had to pay rent out of that £50 ?

Well, I'm with you there, Cote. After taxes and NI, plenty of us earn less than if we claimed and have NO chance of ever getting social housing unless my poor landlord pays money to go to court and get us out.

Again, fair enough, that's the system.

But we've got a system now where work literally doesn't pay unless it's about £20,000/pa minimum AND a few generations who see that and think, 'Fuck it, the working poor life is worse than this.' And they're right and you know, there really is something wrong with that.

And don't give me all this, 'It's because they didn't have the opportunity you did' and blah blah blah because DH grew up on a council estate with severe learning disabilities and he's always worked. He didn't even go to a mainstream school and his dad's was a janitor and his mother a secretary. Hardly the riding school type.

Yes, I know some folks can't because of disability, but the majority can do something.

Our daughter has serious learning disabilities herself but just writing people off and using that as an excuse to sit on the dole is a total waste.

And goes to show that support for teenage mothers is not too low, but quite the contrary. It is so high that it is considered a rational alternative to working for one's living.

Not at all but when you look at the bigger picture you can certainly understand why it happens.

'Yes Meg and I bet you lived at home on £50 a week, what if that hadn't been an option, what if you had to pay rent out of that £50 ? '

then you get housing and council tax benefit, katie. but is that not a viable alternative to being on income support or JSA or what have you forever?

that can't be seen as a viable alternative for a big segment of the population just as sitting on 'retirement' for 30 years+ whilst getting more and more expensive to treat health problems is a sustainable paradigm.

to really put my neck out here, i'm a naturalised Brit and i've never seen a society that mollycoddles and makes excuses for so many people in my life. have never heard of so many with 'i can't' mentality.

i really haven't.

i'm not saying it's a good thing, but in a lot of places there's no 'i can't' because the alternative is NOT good at all - and no, i'm not advocating that extreme, either.

but there has to be some alternative, but a lot of times, even suggesting one gets you beyond flamed.

Good points but what's the alternative?

No benefits? How do we decide who genuinely needs them and who is taking the p**s?

I won't flame you! Just interested

Bollox Scotland is just as bad.
It's not a case of I can't increasingly I'm coming around to why the hell should you ?
Why should you work your arse off 40 hours a week to pay for bank bail outs, home owners who've over stretched themselves, graduates who should never have gone to University to study golf at my expense because their parents earn less than £30k. It's a complete joke, the country does need some tough love but really are the young girls getting pregnant the first ones it should be aimed at, I don't think so.

I don't think any group in society should be used as a scapegoat for its wrongs tbh

Since when did the government help out homeowners? Bollox. You don't get any income support until you haven't paid your mortgage for nearly a year, by which time you'd have been out on your ear and still left with a huge mortgage to pay. I don't know where this notion that you get bailed out comes from. I would have liked to have lived on benefits for a while when my baby was small but because I have a mortgage to pay, I couldn't. If I'd been renting, that would have been fine.

Anyone who treats living on benefits as a lifestyle choice is just as deserving of scorn.

Have not read all this thread. Don't even know if I can. I come from an upper middle class family. I got pregnant with my son when I was 17. I went to college both during and after my pregnancy. Now I have a dd aswell and am pregnant again. My dh (who I have been married for coming onto 3 years now) works full time. Abortion is not something I believe in nor is something I believe should be viewed as just another option. It is so much more than that.

The benefit system sucks. However it is not set up towards teenage mothers alone. It is set up so any single person will recieve more help than a couple where atleast 1 person is working.

I am a wonderful mother, my children are well looked after and cared for. And I know for a fact that I will never write a letter (as my fathers girlfriend aged 36 wrote me)detailing how much I hate motherhood. How I stay awake crying every night feeling trapped. I have made my choices and love my family unconditionaly.

Do you know what really bugs me though? 30something women who honestly believe they are so above the rest of the world they think it is ok to belittle other people, critise other peoples parenting because of a STEROTYPE. Try getting off mumsnet and meet some real people before you judge.

here here mumof2!

I feel better now!

exactly my point about hearing what it is really like being a younger mother rather than believing all the stereotypes.

Oh spicemonster, get with the programme huni, it's three months before help is made to home owners with their mortgages as of April 2009, anybody would think they were expecting this financial mayhem

No benefits definitely NOT an alternative.

But the alternatives need to be so all-reaching that they won't go down well because they involve a paradigm-shift that I'm not sure British culture is capable of.

It's like shifting the attitude towards drinking and alcohol. It's like there's something Saxon still programmed into a lot of people here to binge drink and get violent.

Not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, but it seems to be more widespread here.

But the only means to combat it involves becoming more of a police state. And who wants to pay more money for prisons and law enforcement?

Then there's all kinds of other things. The housing system, taxes on the working poor, the tax credit system, etc.

And you really don't think the banks are going to evict people before then Katie? I think you're a bit naive.

As for Scotland being any better than England and Wales at handling all this, NO WAY.

Parts of Glasgow have the lowest life-expectany for men in all Europe, including Eastern Europe, and the highest percentages of population on incapacity benefit.

I think there's a bit of confusion here!

Just because I think something needs to be done does not mean I either look down on teenage mums or believe we shouldn't be supporting them.

I'm actually thinking of them. We need to offer them alternatives whether that be university, further education or training. We need to make the alternative to early motherhood more attractive so that getting pregnant is the last thing they'd want to do.

Disaffected teenagers, both boys and girls are not good news for society. We have a duty to try and discourage that as much as possible.