To think all this talk of sex education is patronising to teenage mothers

[roseability]

A lot of teenagers want to start a family and know perfectly well how to use a condom

As a society we have actually created the problem by stigmatising teenage pregnancy. It doesn't conform to socioeconomic norms of educational and economic success thus it is wrong. By making it 'wrong' teenage mothers are marginalised and often receive poor antenatal care and fewer opportunities for themselves and their family.

There were actually more teenage mothers in the 1950s than in the 1990s. Of course in the 1950s it was acceptable to have a baby under the age of 20 (as long as you were married). I am not advocating forced marriage but the fact that society accepted it meant teenage mothers got a better deal (in terms of their image anyway)

Define teenager. There is a big difference between a 13 year old who does fall pregnant accidently through poor knowledge and a 19 year old who chooses to start a family young, but doesn't expect to be judged just because she isn't fulfilling society's expectations.

We are not going to stop teenage pregnancy. There are much wider socioeconomic, psychological and political issues surrounding young motherhood than sex education.

Personally I would be more worried about STDs and the damage to young people's health, this is where sex education should be aimed at.

I am sure teenage motherhood is tough and there are issues about the welfare of young mums and their babies but to conclude my point, it is society that has caused such issues. I am also sure that there are many great young mums doing a better job than older mothers.

Much as I do disagree with a lot of what SqueakyPop says, she does make a good point about "remembering his name" ...... (although it doesn't just occur in teenagers).

A lot of pg occur from a one night stand or very brief fling.....

I think that is where a lot of the problrm lies.

When educating people, we should be teaching them about the importance of emotional relationships, aswell as phyical ones.

No, but you suggested I should feel shame for collecting anything you poor poor taxpayers pay into the system as if my whole working family contributes nothing. I hope to go nothing happens to you or your family and you have to claim anything because you are not immune

I felt great in my late teens. Was thin, carefree and energetic

Maybe it would have been easier then with a loving partner and economic stability

Now I am fat (according to this lot size 16 is most definately fat!), have no energy and worry about everything. Having my DS has been so hard, although hugely rewarding.

it seems then that a big issue is socioeconomic status not age

I wouldn't be here if my mother hadn't fallen pregnant at the age of 19! Good on her!

I agree with Filz my mother used to moan about people on benefits etc she had to learn the hard way and after working all of her adult life is unable to anymore due to the nerves in her leg and is on benefits. So me being the wonderful daughter that I am remind her how awful it is for people to claim benefits I usually get a swift Fuck off from her but now she is able to see that its not all lazy shits on benefits.

Thank goodness for the benfits system

My DH has a bad back. What if it stopped him working? We would be screwed without them

It is a very right wing view that all people on benefits are scroungers and lazy. I just hate it.

SqyekyPop,

my mum and grandmother were not tied to the kitchen sinks. They both worked and travel.

But you know what? My mum was very wealthy, she went to bed one night rich and she woke up peniless. Happens all the time due to earthquakes, wars etc. But they still had more children and survived.

You are lucky you dont live with these fears in UK. but ffs look around. Life changes. You know what they say: when you stereotype and criticise you might be one day on the other side. And then your mind might open up a bit...

absolutely tiramissu!

filz, if you are claiming benefits because you are a carer, that is not the same argument as someone claiming benefits because they had an oopsie when they were 14. Stop trying to muddy the waters. By doing this, we will never solve the problem.

Since when did I become the advocated for tying women to the kitchen sink????

I am a career woman myself!

Haven't read all the thread, just the first few. Why not improve sex education and offer choices to those who do still end up getting pregnant, planned or otherwise? The best sex education won't prevent contraceptive failure, for example.

I also think that it should be easier to continue/return to education and training at different ages than it is now. I've heard stories of young adults being unable to complete college courses because they didn't do them at 16-18 but eg started at 19 and have then lost out on funding to complete something which would have helped them get a job. Might help young dads as well as youngmums.

Age is not a red herring. For the simple fact that a 30yr old woman is more likely (though not always I know)to be financially stable than a 16yr old girl.

Filz, I know you argued the opposite but when I said I waited until I could do support the baby, I meant that we worked on paying the mortgage on just DH's salary so it hasn't at all become more difficult despite having another two and more than doubling the mortgage. Each time I have factored in affordability. How many 16yr olds having unprotected sex actually think about paying the utility bills?

I totally agree with Expat that we need to hold boys to the same account. Not using a condom needs to be stigmatised. Relying on your girlfriend to be on the pill really is pathetic. If you're man enough to do it you need to be man enough to take responsibility and accept any consequences.

I had a friend at school who got his girlfriend pregnant in the 6th form. It always disgusted me that he just went off to uni anyway whilst she stayed at home. His parents encouraged this too. Worse still was he graduated, got a great job and then wanted to start a relationship with his daughter once all the hard work was done. Dick!

We should always offer support (financial and social) to the needy and vurnerable in our society. But having a child (at whatever age) with the assumption that others will pay for that child's upkeep is wrong.

And can I just add that a condom bursting when used properly is exceptionally rare. When I speak to professionals working in FPCs (both as clinics and sessions at GPs) they say that the vast majority of reported burst condoms come from teenagers. Teenagers I speak to often think they know about condoms but have no idea they're suppose to squeeze the air out the end and hold that part when putting one on.
Clearly they are not being taught,or not taking in how to put one on properly.

Of course, to be fair, I'm sure many older women don't either and have just been luckier.

Ok, last seriel post

To me, the idea of getting pregnant so young was mortifying. Not because of stigma or my parents but because I would have felt that all the amazing, exciting adventures I was planning in my head would be cut dead. I would have been devastated for my loss.

That is the education (message)we need to be getting across.

I lied!

This is where the idea of vcational training for some girls at 14 would make a difference.

Those girls who are not academic and are bored silly by the time they get to 14 would benefit enormously from having a stimulating focus in their life. A goal, something to aspire to other than just motherhood.

vocational

'You must make sure you have house and money before you have children'.

Imagine then, few years ago when tsunami hit we shouldnt sent aid. We should sterilize the whole population there. No house, no babies!

The same in countries that have been hit by war: Cyprus, Libanon, Bosnia... They shouldn't have any baby after that? And they should't get any help?

No. only those with 4 bed house and 2 cars on the driveway should reproduce

Ok, barring acts of God and war!

I know quite a few women who have held off having more kids because the don't feel they can afford it. None are poor.

Tiramissu - You can't compare people torn apart by war or a natural disaster to irresponsible teenagers who start having babies and expect taxpayer to finance the rest of their lives.

Myredcardigan, there are opportunities for vocational training but as point was ignored earlier what's the bloody point of becoming a hairdresser, waitress, sales assistant when minimum wage isn't enough to cover your busfare and a night out ?

How can they save, buy a car, travel on holidays all the things we did on that amount of money, unless they are living at home which for many young people is a grim experience so the baby and flat seems the perfect solution.

Agree with KatieDD

What is the point of working hard when you know it won't bring you independence? Quality of life for young school leavers, without qualifications, is miserably low because of the accomodation crisis.

But hardly anyone cares. The Guardian and other newspapers prefer to talk about the impacts on "hardworking homeowners". The poor conditions and lack of security of private rental accomodation are ignored.

And renting is terribly expensive...plus add to that the deposit and 3 months rent up front..... what choice do young people have?

to keep their knees together?

SP too be honest if you're bringing up your children to share your views I'd rather you had kept your knees together too.