To think its unfair that my DD will probably not get into the state school I can see from my window

[dilemma456]

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Amen to that edam.

There isn;t a fair way of getting into a school, sadly, but I don;t think religion should be another hurdle to jump.

I went to non-denominational schools and I like to think I have resect and knowlegefor anf of most religions. My RE was very good, (Even though my teacher was a schlaaaag)

Wow- 10%... of course, the catholic church doesn't have any money does it?

But she won't get the education that I want for her. Yet the OP wants her child to go to the Catholic school and not be Catholic. Whatever school you go to you have to subscribe to their teachings and she doesn't. I wouldn't dream of approaching the school near me, because it won't teach DD what I want. Good luck to all the children that go there, it looks grand but my DD won't be one of them, so the school and its reputation is of no consequence to me. I'll ignore it when it comes to school applications.

(DD has her little music group there, which is how I know it's so fantastic. i haven't been pressing my nose up against the windows with envy )

And that money comes from other Catholic parents and grandparents not the church itself.
At the end of the day I would be very upset if they closed down Jewish schools, Muslim schools, Catholic or C of E schools because we are all different, do believe different things and people should have choices.
If the Catholic school was the sink school would the OP still be looking out of her window wistfully ?

Each Peach - some people never take their children to church so if they don't have a religious element to their education they would spend their childhood with no religious experience.

Without knowing OP it is hard to clearly state whether she is unreasonable as I don't know her complete choice of schools. However if she has other schools nearby I can't see why she wouldn't choose one of the others instead. If the catholic secondary is the only decent school I would move by then unless I could afford private.

If the OP doesn't have any other good schools nearby then maybe she is not being unreasonable. I am fortunate in living in an area with a good choice of schools for primary and secondary.

If she won't get the education you want for her- you should pay to go independent. Sorry- taxpayers should not be funding faith schools -end of story. Times have changed. There may not be a separation of church and state, but religion is hardly the establishment any longer.

Funnily enough- I don't think my DC will get the education I want for them in my local schools, but you know what- I think education is important, and I will put my hand in my pocket and pay for what I do want.

If you want your children indoctrinated- why don't you do that in church? (serious question)

i think specific religious education should be taught at the sunday/sat schools etc

and the schools should cover academic subjects

then it would be fair for all

miffy all state schools teach religious studies though- and are compelled to have an act of worship every day [grr]- so ALL children in the state system have religion thrust at them, surely?

"miffy by your argument- children of poor atheists would be entitled to no education at all" written by Each Peach.

Children of poor atheists would get a good education because they would choose a normal state primary rather than the C of E or catholic option.

There is a hell of a lot that the state shouldn't be funding, illegal wars, bank bailouts the list is endless.

Well- Katie- I don't approve of those either, nor did I vote in the government that approved those things.

miffy- in my authority, over 1/3 of schools are faith schools- what if I live nowhere near a non-faith school?

true mif - and as a not so poor agnostic my kids go to a fab state primary which they love - but when they get to secondary we shall have to drive to the nearest state one, passing all the catholic parents coming in the other direction!!

planet vs religious education ?! which is more important?!

So why is this debate always this way round? I never read any threads about the CofE, whatever you call it school, sorry, didn't know there was a correct term , being the best one but as my child is Catholic/Jewish etc I won't send them there. People are always on about the Catholic schools being better. Why do you think that is? Basically, they are the same as all the others. The only difference is the religious education. So why are they always the most sought after schools? (serious question btw!)

I can't afford to pay for a private school, so why shouldn't I be entitled to the education I want for my child. I have to rely on the state just like most other people, all those people who are lying to get into church schools or moving house to cheat the system. If the OP is entitled to what she wants, why aren't I? I pay taxes, as do all of the parents with children in Catholic schools.

EachPeach, DD will go to a Sunday school, but it's not just about that, it's about being part of a community. Or are only other religions allowed to have that?

taxpayers are not funding faith schools any more than they are funding non faith schools..as far as I'm aware they have the same state funding. They may get extra church funding..however if church schools were abolished this funding would disappear so overall schools would have less money and fewer facilities.

If faith schools were removed how would that improve our education system? It would just make it mediocre as some of the best schools and the extra funding would be removed.

Whilst all schools may teach religion they do not all have a daily assembly, or say prayers during the course of the day. At a church school there will also be a higher proportion of teachers of the faith in question which I think is a good thing, being in favour of faith schools.

Surely your church has a community? I don't understand your point....
The best state primary school (according to performance tables) in my authority is CE... it also happens to be 300 yards from my home, but my DC won't be going there.

If you can't afford to pay- you are not entitled to the education you want for your child- simple- that is the way of the system- it has to serve the lowest common denominator I'm afraid.

I want my children to be exempt from the NC, to have excellent music facilities, and the opportunity to learn classics in primary school- think I'm going to get that? Not without paying for it.

many years ago when i applied for secondary school, the 'faith' schools locally were all required to admit a small percentage of local children who were not of that faith, meaning that anyone who lived very close to the school would get a place regardless of faith, which seemed to me a much fairer way of doing things.

oh, and on the point of paying £1,000's to live near a good school, which was mentioned earlier in the thread, i live in an affluent london suburb (average house prices £400K), but if you dont get into the grammar school (as my ds has failed to) your alternative is the local comp, with onsite police officer, regular fights, stabbings etc. so despite therefore living in what should be a good area, i'm now having to move 30 miles away to (hopefully) get my son a half decent education.

If you can't afford private education and don't like the state education on offer then Home Educate, that would be my next choice, I wouldn't send my child into some sub standard school.

But why isn't there an atheists only school that religious people are excluded from? I could sign a form that says I don't believe in God and my children could go there with other non-faith children.

I don't want my child to go to a faith school, but I don't see why discrimination shouldn't work the other way too. I imagine an atheists only school would also have a different demographic to a bog standard school.

I can just about see the arguments for selecting by ability (it would be that children do better with children of similar abilities) or by gender (children do better in single sex groups) but I can't find a comparably meaningful argument for selecting by faith.

You religious lot, it's necessary for you have separate places of worship. But having separate places of schooling means that the faiths do not mix with one another and many communities now operate on the basis of separate and parallel lives.

Virtually every enquiry Cantle, Macpherson (I think) that touches upon faith schools has recommended that they be abolished.

You ask - If faith schools were removed how would that improve our education system?

The answer of course is that it would not make a jot of difference. Those children with parents behind them would be absorbed into the state mainstream and do just as well there.

The effects of these faith divisions are particularly dubious in a workplace environment.

But why isn't there an atheists only school that religious people are excluded from

There could be, you just need to set it up from scratch, can you be bothered, is it that important to you that you'd actually do something about it ? Like the Catholics did and the Jews and Muslims did ?

umm- Quat- could you elaborate on your final sentence, please?

Actually Katie- all attempts to set up a secularist school in England have been thwarted.
I appreciate in the past religious schools were founded as charity, but education should be available to all in this day and age, not as a result of charity.

If all you focus on is the negatives of a particular set-up, then of course you will want to abolish it. You have to look at what is good about it too.

If non-Catholic families actively want to send their children to Catholic schools, then that is a good enough reason to keep them.

As a non-Catholic, I would not particularly want my children to go to a Catholic primary school (even if great and just across the road), but I am happy to, and do, send my older children to independent Catholic senior schools.

Yes, there is a community at the church, of course. But the school will have pupils from other churches. When I was at school I knew people from miles away, it's a wider community.

FWIW I absolutely do think that an atheist's school would be a good idea. I don't see why everyone should be lumped in together because some people disapprove when it doesn't go their way. And there are specialist music schools, dance schools etc. There's one not too far from me. I might want DD to go there are it's also a terrific school, but she might have two left feet or be tone deaf. But hey, I want her to go there anyway and she can miss out on the dancing. My taxes go towards it so why not.

Why get so steamed up about something that's not yours to worry about. Find a school that suits you, don't worry about what everyone else is doing.