To think its unfair that my DD will probably not get into the state school I can see from my window

[dilemma456]

Message withdrawn

I'm not stirring. I live in a country (France) with a very different approach to state education; and I went to school in yet another system.

People on MN are forever whinging about how unfair the English system is and claiming that x, y and z would be better. I live with x, y and z on a daily basis and have to also live with their failings.

There is no perfect school system anywhere. It is up to responsible parents to do the very best for their own child in whatever country/circumstances they live in. If all parents did this, there would be far far fewer problems with schools...

Anna, if you find threads where people complain about school choices so wearing, why click on them? It's just insanely annoying even if you do accessorise your posts with a .

I usually avoid them.

But sometimes I just feel like pointing out to parents that the education of their children is their f*ing responsibility, not the state's.

How come no-one wanted to abolish faith schools before league tables were introduced and people could see how good they were?

Is it because they didn't mind faith schools existing if they were crappy, but now it's been established they're very good, they want to ban them because they can't have them?

I'm wondering why a catholic school would be so much better than another local primary. Does the pushy middle class demographic argument hold for catholic schools? It didn't in my day certainly.

This is nothing to do with league tables, soultaken. It is the principle - its an unfair system.
Anna, parents (and others) pay their taxes in order that the state provides a free education to every child. It is one of the most important functions of the state and benefits all society. Parents have the responsibilty to ensure their children attend school and provide a supportive environment for their children to learn at school and home.

No the argument doesn't hold for catholic schools TFM.

All the polish immigrants who have recenty entered this country send their dcs to the catholic schools and they are not middle class, they are nearly all on minimum wage.

CofE policy, however, is a disgrace. With them, their schools ARE in affluent areas.

It is the CofE schools that are giving the Catholic ones a bad name. I wish people wouldn't lump them together

I say again soultaken - its the principle! Not whether the school is seen to be doing well/in an affluent area.

Schools that are funded by the taxpayer should not be able to choose their pupils on the grounds of religion.

What would a "fair" system look like, unavailable?

I do not agree with you assertion on responsibilities one little bit: in England, parents are free to educate their children how they see fit. The state supports parents in their duty to educate their children by providing schools (that parents may use if they wish).

I am astonished at some of the opinions on this thread!
Anna- talk about sweeping statements: "Because children in secular schools have no proper moral education and grow up not knowing how to live harmoniously with others; and children in religious schools grow up bigoted and retrograde."
Unbelievable. My husband is buddhist (yet ANOTHER section of society not catered for, but hey!)- so my DC will have no proper moral education if they don't attend a religious school? Of course, children are not morally guided by their parents are they?
And all religiously educated children are bigoted? I shall assume you went to a church school then.

And soultaken... words fail me. The schools in my authority who are defying the rules on admissions are RC schools in the main, rather than CE schools. Many, many poles who have arrived in my authority do not have children educated in faith schools... because they cannot afford to live in the catchment areas funnily enough. Most are in poor, inner city schools.

Schools that are funded by the taxpayer should not be able to choose their pupils on the grounds of religion.

Why?

EachPeach - you are taking what I said totally out of context. It was a reply to a previous post.

Sorry- you were referring to the French system? The system where DH was educated?

Err - Because its discriminatory. What if you subtituted race for religion in your last post soultaken.

I agree that it seems ridiculous now that my children should be discriminated against in terms of school applications because I happen not to sign up to a particular brand of religion. Mind you, I wouldn't actually want my child to go to a church school because I don't believe in God.

It also seems unfair that our borough has a very successful and oversubscribed girls only secondary but no boys only secondary. So girls get an extra choice.

I was trying to give a succinct reply to the question about what was wrong, in my view, with the French system. Of course you could write books about it and differences with the English system...

Yes, what if I substituted 'height' or 'eye colour'? Still, schools are allowed to discriminate on other bases eg gender and academic ability, so I suppose it is only because I am a non-believer that it seems unreasonable to me.

I can at least see however that people are different genders and have different academic abilities, and that these things might be a reason for meaningful differentiation, but to select on the basis of 'faith' seems really odd.

The education system is supposed to be open to all- and judging children by their parents- whom they have no control or say over is morally wrong.
What if a school tried to say no children of junkies, or prostitutes, or solicitors may attend?

I am still lololing at "Then you should have worked towards meeting the criteria for the good school well in advance."

Yes, because it's really moral to pretend to be a Catholic and schmooze a priest in order to get into your local state school,

that must be the high morals Anna is talking about sheik!

Well don't worry too much unavailable.

My guess is that it's only a matter of time before faith schools are all abolished anyway.

Soultaken that would be the day I go HURRAY!!!!!

Your hard earned tax is required to bail out banks, not educate your child, honestly you'll be wanting health care next tsk

Schools that discriminate on grounds of faith have no place in a modern society.
Only around 5% of the population actually attend church regularly, why then should 30% of schools be faith based, and have faith based admissions policies?

"Because children in secular schools have no proper moral education and grow up not knowing how to live harmoniously with others; and children in religious schools grow up bigoted and retrograde." Anna, that's a wind-up, yes??

My DIL is French. I have no idea what type of school she went to but I can't say that I've noticed her having no morals, living with ds2 unharmoniously (is that a word??) or being bigoted and retrograde.

And I do hate the idea that if you are of a secular leaning you have no morals.