To think its unfair that my DD will probably not get into the state school I can see from my window

[dilemma456]

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Are non-Catholics actually barred from using Catholic schools? Not in our LEA anyway. They will give preference to Catholic children, but then other schools give preference to certain children for other reasons (catchment, siblings, distance within etc) so not really that different. Certainly I know of quite a few non-Catholics that attend.

Am far more incensed about the fact that our ordinary well-performing no-problems catchment secondary was merged with another secondary and the running of both given over to an evangelical Christian group, with total disregard for local feelings. That I think is a genuine reason for complaint. People moved into the area thinking they knew what the educational situation was - and they didn't.

Of course Catholic schools teach about all religions, it's a curriculum requirement.

I was making the point that teaching about different religions is a good thing but that practising it in school doesn't need to be done.

It depends on the school cory and the competition to get in. That's certainly the case here, although adopted children are allowed in.

What is it about Catholic dogma that makes it important for Catholic children to spend all their days with other Catholic children? Not killing people - mmm, I'm not keen on that one either. Not stealing - OK, I'm with you there. Believing that bread and wine change into flesh and blood in your mouth - OK, you've lost me there and that's rather creepy, but I don't think that can come into many numeracy, literacy or PE lessons.

Anna - in france do the secular schools teach RE?

Spidermama I went to Catholic school and there was children that was not Catholic that went there but of course the schools will choose Catholic children first like wise on the Area you live etc and so on.

Well let's just ban choice and diversity at school and have one curriculum for all decided centrally and every child in the country will wear the same uniform and sing from the same sheet .

Don't be so totalitarian about it. Variety is the spice of life. Thank goodness we have a state that supports it.

nappyaddict - no, secular schools do not teach RE. They are in theory going to start teaching a teensy-weensy little bit about different religions in history-geography classes.

Secular means secular. No Christmas tree, no party, no decorations...

i agree with anna that variety is the spice of life - i take it further and think therefore that all schools should be open to all kids so they mix and integrate - not in a ranking hierachy of what the parents believe in (or say they believe in)

that's why cath schools exist - because they don't want their beliefs to be eroded

Singersgirl your taking the PISS!!! If I was said shit about the Muslim religion I would be Flamed

that's not the point of Catholic schools I did holy communion at mine also did confession went to Church etc

My reason for disliking intensely religious schools are as follows:

When DSS was at primary school he lived in a very multicultural area. His mum is catholic and placed him in the local school. Out of a class of 28 the ethnic mix was as follows ( 23 black or mixed race children, 4 white children(black/white) and one asian child).

His friend went to the school that is literally next door his class was had 75% Asian with the rest being a mix of white/black.

So basically to schools next to each other is completely dividing children down ethnic backgrounds because of religion.

In this area some of the worst gang violence is between black and asian gangs...

sickens me.

two not to

I'm not taking the piss - I'm just asking what it is about a particular faith that means that all children of that faith need to be taught together.

Most of the major world religions seem to agree on the important things about how to be a good person and how to treat others, and most non-religious or atheist people also would agree. So the differences are largely 'trivial' differences of dogma or conduct - not things that warrant separating children out and making them believe they are different from one another in ways that are really important.

"Forcing all children to attend secular school unless parents wish and are able to pay school fees is rather totalitarian, however..."

Er, no it isn't. Preventing people from adhering to a religion at all would be totalitarian. Providing secular education for all and allowing anyone to worship/teach their children about their religion in the privacy of their own home, outside of school, is definitely not totalitarian.

As I said, the issue as to whether faith schools are acceptable at all is one thing. Allowing them to select pupils is another one altogether. If they get 10% funding from the church, why are they allowed to select pupils to fill 100% of places if they so wish. It doesn't make any sense.

It is unfair that some people have easier access to 30% more taxpayer-funded primary schools than others just because they go to church. It is an arbitrary discrimination.

It's not enough to say that Catholics pay tax too. They do pay tax, but they get more schools to choose from in return - they are not barred from secular schools. That is unfair.

"Most of the major world religions seem to agree on the important things about how to be a good person and how to treat others, and most non-religious or atheist people also would agree."

No they don't. There are major cultural/religious differences about how to treat others.

Parents choose a school precisely because of those massive differences: they want their children to adhere to a certain set of values in their formative years.

i honestly think future generations will look back and be amazed at the fact that kids were sorted into schools according to religion - i think it will seem so oldfashioned and exclusive

I rather disagree with that, and I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'massive', but if it were true, then it would make it all the more important for children of all faiths and non-faiths to be taught together.

anna - id like those with values to share them with everyone else rather than keep them to themselves - spread the word!

Why do you conclude that?

Human beings are tribal animals. You aren't going to change that by indulging in social engineering.

Anna as an atheist who is very interested in all religions I would argue that the core values that religions have are all the same.

Culturally there are differences but that is within religions too.

If you can name me a specific value that is relevant to children of primary education age that differs between the major religions I would be very impressed.

I am not being funny but look at what happens in schools in some schools they have banned the Nativity play due to religion which is not fair on Children that have a christian belief.

I would rather my children went to a Catholic school Also your notice that alot of the religious schools are very good as OP has stated.

Singersgirl making comments about the Catholic beliefs is taking the piss
Believing that bread and wine change into flesh and blood in your mouth - OK, you've lost me there and that's rather creepy

Pingping - I thought that was one of those Daily Mail 'stories', linking with all the other rubbish they come out about Birmingham banning xmas (total rubbish as brummies will let you know).

And when it was investigated the real reason it was given up was that the teachers wanted a change from doing it year after year.

I believe that dividing people up makes tribal divisions worse. We don't say "Children have always bullied each other, so let's not try and stop them." So why should we take that attitude to divisiveness in any form?

In any case, Anna, we are not really talking about the differences between world religions when we talk about faith schools in this country.

We are talking about Christian schools, with a large sub-set being Catholic schools. There are approximately 140 Muslim schoools in the country, one state-funded Hindu school and 2,315 Catholic schools. So we are really talking about whether Christian values in this country are that different from the values of most hard-working, law-abiding folk, religious or not. I think they're not.

Pingping, I was being honest. I do think the idea of something I'm eating turning into flesh and blood rather creepy and it is something I struggle to understand. I'm happy for anyone to try to explain it to me - I had a long discussion on transubstantiation with a close Jesuit friend of mine recently.