To let my 3yo run around shouting in a church...

[alardi]

Obviously not during a service(!).

Here's the scene:
Fine medieval church in a small market town. Sign on church door that says "The church is open to all visitors". It's market day so many people popping in and out to see the architexture, buy a card, light a candle..

I go in with my 3yo DS who likes to run to the back the church, stopping to talk shout about things on the way, then run back to the front area (near the door), where the children's door is so that he can look at books, play with Noah's Ark toys there, etc. He tends to shout when he speaks at all, so from a stranger's perspective, you could say he's running and shouting...

As he runs back, a sour faced old bat old lady sitting in the pews, stands up and shrieks speaks sternly "Excuse me, this is not a playground!"

So I apologised and left...DS kept asking why we had to leave and I said it was because the miserable old hag old lady didn't like children.

But I haven't set foot in the church since, don't want to cause offense, can't get over the feeling that churches are really only for the old and solemn and miserable, not for lively young children.

Or was I outrageous to ever take my unruly DS in, especially as we are contented, resolute unbelievers? I just felt the church was part of DS's heritage and even if we are slack secularists humanists, I didn't want churches/religion to seem like a foreign culture to DC (hence why we used to visit the church fairly frequently).

I hadn't really noticed she was there, Marina, like I said, it was market day in town so lots of people coming and going in the church.

I think of her as sour faced old bat because I live in a small town where most people are very friendly, but although she lives around the corner from me and is dinner lady at DC school, and a cleaner there, she has never been friendly back when i said 'hello' as we were walking by each other on the road from where we live into town (for years before this incident happened).

My 3 year old ds is very boisterous, but no way would I allow this behaviour in church. I get a whiff of PFB hear I'm afraid. It is all about respect and being aware of how your actions impact others around you.

I suspect your mum doesn't have over 200 children at her Sunday service as ours does. It is already bedlam with just a few badly behaved children/parents.

I love taking ds to the Cathedral on rainy days when we fancy a walk. He races up and down, Roars loudly at the lion-with-wings things at the base of the pulpit, exclaims over paintings etc before going out to the cloisters for more racing. Last time we were there one of the ladies who works there helping tourists etc stopped to chat to him and told him he could make as much nose as he wanted

There are times and places for running and shouting- church is not one of them. In my opinion, if you are taking him only as part of his "heritage" 3 is far to young to appreciate what you are trying to tell him and maybe you should leave it until you have learned how to rein in his exuberance in sensitive places.

I remember once my baby crying loads through a Christmas service. Eventually I had to leave because of the sour faced old bints tutting and shaking their heads. Not before reminding them that we were there to celebrate the birth of baby Jesus and the Season of Good Will.

Cowbags.

Agree with CoV; it's about codes of behaviour really and the early they learn some of these codes the better. That way they won't grow up into people who text through cinema showings, theatre performances etc (not church, no but a huge personal greivance of mine!).

YABU. Churches are places of quiet reflection - especially when a service is not on. You'd probably have got away with his boisterousness better during a family service.

earlier

YABU - fine to go into a church, fine to have a look round probably even fine to run up the aisle and fine to shout but doing the two together is too much and is too intrusive for other people in the church.

What were you doing? If you were following him around and talking back to him just as loudly it would have been a huge distraction for somebody who was there for quiet contemplation and a bit of a prayer.

MrsMattie - our church has the same policy of welcoming all but there is a big difference between a crying baby and children playing in the aisle and a child who is shouting and running around and generally drawing the attention away from the purpose most people are there - to hear the service. We also have a creche for children and most parents would rather take their children there if they are too loud for too long rather than make things difficult for others to hear. It may be God's house but a bit of courtsey doesn't go amiss.

YABU, I'm afraid.

I think that churches and churchgoers need to accept that it's hard for young children to sit still / be completely quiet / lose themselves in reflective prayer

But I also think that as parents we have a responsibility to teach children how to behave in church in a respectful manner - respectful of other churchgoers, but also with respect for the church as a holy place, whether you share the religious belief or not. You wouldn't go to a Muslim or Hindu or Aboriginal sacred site and let your child tear around, so nor should you in a Christian church.

All it means, IMHO, is taking them by the hand and saying 'No, this is a church and it's a very special place to some people, so we must walk and not run'.

It's give & take.

My priest was a big fan of children in church.
He was brilliant at speaking clearly across babbling babies and talking toddlers.
But i think even he would have drawn the line at a child running about and shouting.
It is nothing to do with the church not being welcoming and everything to do with your being disrespectful.
That 'old hag' could have been someone like my mum who was brought up on solomn prayer and goes in once a month or so to light a candle for my dad.

I'm not sure why you think that behaviour is ok in church when it wouldn't be ok at the supermarket.

A baby crying is a different matter, however if they are crying constantly I think it's only polite to remove them until they are calmer. It's common courtesy to allow others to hear the service.

My mum does a special family service. It's short and children are allowed to play / talk within reason.

There is a room at the back with toys for children to go if they are being too noisy or crying.

People who go to the family service have to be prepared to put up with a bit of noise etc. If they don't like it there's an earlier service and one in the evening that aren't aimed at families.

I think the OP should have told her DS to be quiet and walk sensibly as you would in any public place really. But the old lady didn't have to be so abrupt about it - she should have asked nicely.

I actually think its better to have children run about in the middle of a family church service than when the church is open for quiet prayer and complemation.

Churches are buildings for everyone and they are open different times for different people. I would never dream of taking my son to the 8am sombre said service or evening song. Similarly I would not expect the sort of people who loathe small children to attend the 10am family service.

I think the problem was misunderstanding. Its not reasonable to expect non christians to know what kind of behaviour is expected inside a church. Its sad if it puts the OP off ever going inside a church again.

Our church has open days specifically for non christian families for come and visit. They are great fun and its a bit like a fete. The church is also open at other times for quiet prayer.

If it is made clear that the church is open for quiet prayer rather than visiting then I think you should control your child.

I think children should be allowed to be children in church, so a degree of running and shouting is to be expected. At the end of our toddler group, I take all the children into the church and positively encourage them to run up and down the aisles. They love all that space. They also use the communion table as a den and I'm certain that Jesus thoroughly approves.

But I think in any situation where there are other people around, one should be considerate of their desire for peace and quiet. So if there was someone there who obviously was in search of peace and calm, probably you should have got your son to tone it down. Not because it was a church - but because there was someone there who was looking for peace.

I would say the same thing if you were talking about a library or a restaurant, if there were other people around who appeared to be in search of a more calm environment. Equally, I would not expect them to be rude to visiting children.

So a degree of give and take on both sides, I reckon.

misshardbroom [hijack] I have a pink pirate t shirt here if your DS want one. I washed it with my red towels...

I was always saved the comfy quiet end of a pew when DS was young, so I could whip my nips out in peace (and give them some peace I suppose)! The attendants always put extra cushions and a bag of toys for DD.

Reallytired good point. ds used to runa rround at the end of the service(after sunday school) it was emabarresing, but all the mums said they had been throught it.
whan people are praying and looking for peace though. children should npt be running arround.

2shoes. Can't you go back to be your saintly version? I know it is halloween but your name is too....>

Your 3 year old can be boisterous loud and shouting at a park, NOT in a place of worship. I don't care how young he is, he must be taught manners and respect. I don't even go to church but I would never allow my children to behave that way. The same could be said of a library, store, movie theater, etc.

I think I can honestly, hand-on-heart say that I have never been PFB about any of DC, especially not the DS in question who is my third child...

But it's true I would try hard to not let him run a circle/talk so loudly in the same way around the adult areas of a public library, but then again, he couldn't -- libraries are too full of bookshelves and people, he couldn't get any speed up. And a movie theatre is similar (seats and people and darkness to contend with).

Usually when we went into the church we were absolutely the only people there, this last occasion was unusually busy with visitors.

oh god you wouldn't want to my church on a Sunday - you'll routinely find my DS3 running around (and yes shouting ).

Although sometimes he gets taken out for a walk in his pushchair if he starts crying - as the only thing that would console him otherwise is if I stopped playing the organ.............or he could come and "help" me

You are deluding yourself about your dc's behaviour:

He tends to shout when he speaks at all, so from a stranger's perspective, you could say he's running and shouting..."

He was running and shouting, why are you playing it down? You let your child run and shout in a place of worship.