To let my 3yo run around shouting in a church...

[alardi]

Obviously not during a service(!).

Here's the scene:
Fine medieval church in a small market town. Sign on church door that says "The church is open to all visitors". It's market day so many people popping in and out to see the architexture, buy a card, light a candle..

I go in with my 3yo DS who likes to run to the back the church, stopping to talk shout about things on the way, then run back to the front area (near the door), where the children's door is so that he can look at books, play with Noah's Ark toys there, etc. He tends to shout when he speaks at all, so from a stranger's perspective, you could say he's running and shouting...

As he runs back, a sour faced old bat old lady sitting in the pews, stands up and shrieks speaks sternly "Excuse me, this is not a playground!"

So I apologised and left...DS kept asking why we had to leave and I said it was because the miserable old hag old lady didn't like children.

But I haven't set foot in the church since, don't want to cause offense, can't get over the feeling that churches are really only for the old and solemn and miserable, not for lively young children.

Or was I outrageous to ever take my unruly DS in, especially as we are contented, resolute unbelievers? I just felt the church was part of DS's heritage and even if we are slack secularists humanists, I didn't want churches/religion to seem like a foreign culture to DC (hence why we used to visit the church fairly frequently).

The whole point was that the church wasn't empty! There were people who wanted quiet contemplation. There wouldn't have been a problem if it had been empty.

Just because there is no service doesn't mean you can run riot, adults included of course!

Churches are meant to be quiet places of contemplation, even when there is not a service on.

They are sacred places.

Your DS should not have been allowed to run around. He is very young, and even if you don't take a three year old to church, it doesn't have to mean they will always be foreign to him.

YABU.

Am finding it fascinating how many people on this thread are not normally churchgoers, but still regard churches as "special", "sacred" etc etc. They obviously speak to something deep within people.

Oh for goodness' sake!!!

It is had been during a service - then fine, yes, the child should behave or leave.

But out of service time? For two minutes? Jeez. Children are children.

Oh for goodness' sake!!!

It is had been during a service - then fine, yes, the child should behave or leave.

But out of service time? For two minutes? Jeez. Children are children.

it's the running and loudness when people are quiet praying and reflecting, asking for stuff. I think you also need to consider others feelings and not expect the world to revolve around your ds.

Church Gate continues

I know I shouldn't post any more, don't mean to prolong this, but I have to say

I'm not a troll, on MN I'm more like a very long time serial name-changer. I don't want to be part of the community, the community enjoys biting regulars(!).

I haven't tried in what I wrote here to defend myself, only to state the facts of what happened (at which people on MN can do what they like to do best, judge away).

The incident in OP happened as I said, only it was about 6 months ago and I mostly don't think about it. But I was recently un-nerved to discover old sour face the complaining lady works at my DC school, that brought the memories back. (So I doubt she's suffering terminal cancer, anyway). She still totally blanks me, like she always has (for years before this incident even though we are neighbours and I used to try to say hello to her). I wouldn't be surprised if she has no idea who I am. I have seen her greet others with a smile, so she does have friendly social skills, when she chooses to use them...

Yes, it is a large medieval town church in centre of a small market town, whoever asked.

Perhaps the OP, as a non church goer, thought that the church being open to visitors meant that it was sort of an 'Open Day' as opposed to being a place of worship at that time. I can see how the whole episode would have left all concerned a bit miffed if that were the case.

I have recently started attending Quaker meetings but have yet to bring my 2 little ones along. Apparently, the Sunday Schoolers join the silent worship for about 10 minutes and there isn't a peep out of them because the littlies do generally like immitate everyone else. I am still very apprehensive about the prospect though, given that the four year old conscientously objects to just about every reasonable request, even when made by very reasonable conscientous objectors themselves!

YABU

Claudia40 - that is so sweet, to think of the little ones keeping quiet during the first ten minutes of the Quaker meeting.

YANBU

I am a christian.In gods house all are welcome.
x

I haven't read the whole thread but in my opinion this is a good reason why church congregations are dwindling fast. Because they are so unfamily friendly.

Our church (C. of E) actively welcomes all children. In fact they are an integral part of the church family because Jesus said, "let the children come to me".

I have 2 young boys. The 6yo is reasonably well behaved. My 2yo however is very 'energetic' and spends most of the time up until creche time (so opening prayers, church family news, song and children's song) running up and down the aisle and pews. If I try to stop him (and believe me I have tried many times) he will just start screaming (much worse for the congregation) and I have to remove him and spend the next 20mins in the back room having left DS1 in church by himself. I hate that. Anyway, I have apologised several times and each time the pastor and others have always said no no it's ok, we would rather have him here that not.

Frankly if my church didn't have that attitude we probably would not go at all.
Praying can be done anywhere. Going to church is to be part of a congregation of fellow believers and give thanks and praise to God together.

I am really sorry this has been your experience.

Apropos of nothing I remember when one of my DC's attracted my attention in church during the prayers, pointed incredulously at a lady praying with her eyes shut!!

I had to whisperingly explain that she was able to do this as she didn't have any DCs whose next potential disaster she needed to anticipate.

Poor DS didn't realise you were supposed to pray with your eyes shut.

Just off to choir practice which will be lots of shouting and laughing (and singing) and the baby and other younger siblings will be running riot as usual.

YANBU,when middle dd had her confirmation recently,DDage 2 came along,she was not quiet at all,all the vicars,the bishop,rest of congregation were fine with that.Bishop even said he enjoyed her dancing and not to bother trying to "contain her enjoyment,as this is what children were like and wasnt it wonderful"
I do go to the family service with lots of little ones,generally acting like(loud) children.
Evening service is usually full of older people and i would not take her to that service as a rule,but if i did,i wouldnt gag her.

citronella - the point is though, the OP hadn't gone in order to worship God - she had gone because it was too wet to go to the playground, so that her child could run around the church instead. And someone who was actually trying to pray found it disturbing to them. To which her response was to describe her as a 'sour faced old bag'.

Yes, Jesus said 'suffer the children to come unto me.' He also said 'My temple should be a house of prayer'.

Jesus was pretty tough on money lenders in the temple. I think although he would 'suffer the little children to come unto me', he might be a bit tougher on parents who can't just try and get their DCs to be a little considerate to the needs of others!
I think we are muddling two different things. A church service should be inclusive and most churches accommodate children so that they can be part of the 'church family'. They make the church a friendly place and have creches and Sunday School. Evensong wouldn't be a very suitable service. Some one, earlier on said that someone was upset and left because her 2 yr old ruined their 'carols by candle light'. I think it is a matter of choosing the service. Our local church does a crib service on Christmas Eve, especially for children at 5pm and it is lovely. Parents aim for that rather than evening lessons and carols. Equally the Christingle service is lovely and specially for children. If people don't like children in church they can avoid family services.
The OP wasn't doing any of this, she was merely going in for a short time on a week day-it would have been really easy to make it fun for her DC and keep him reasonably quiet.

Isn't the 3yo tired of running around the church by now? After all, it's been 3 days.

I think the answer is-go to a playground and have a good time!!

Wot no posts on this thread for three hours???

YABU. I take my 4 and 3 year old DS to church. I do my best to keep them more or less quiet during the service, most parents do the same and most people are understanding. If they really become noisy, then we go out until they calm down. When there is no service and we are just visiting I still try to teach them respect for the place and for the people who are praying there. One of my DS has a problem with his loud voice, so even in buses we have to tell him that he is shouting and he needs to speak more softly, because others might want some peace. Too long? Sorry.

The thing is, you can make it fun - 3 yo children DON'T have to run and shout the whole time. If you whisper, they will often whisper back, if you say 'let's creep down to the front of the church, quiet as you can, make your footsteps as quiet as possible.'

I think lots of people have misunderstood this thread completely imo - virtually nobody is saying 'children are noisy, therefore children are not welcome in church.' They are not even saying 'children are only welcome when they are being quiet'. What people are saying is 'children should not be taken to a church IN ORDER to run around and shout'.

No-one wants to stop a parent going to church to worship because they have lively children. But that isn't the situation here - the OP is an atheist, the only purpose in going in was as entertainment for the child. So the phrase everyone trots out about Jesus wanting the children to come is irrelevant - she wasn't taking the child to Jesus, rather to a medieval playground, which others were attempting to use as a place for prayer.