To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

[roseability]

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

But their ambition and motivation is to improve their families lives and the way we do that in the world we live in is to make money- greed is not their motivation- see?
OS motivation changed as he got in touch with his humanity. Yes, it put him in a good position to fool the Nazis!
His story is outnumbered millions of times by those that lost their lives to rid the world of fascism

they are NOT ambitious. they want money, money, money. for stuff. improving their families lives with stuff like DS Lites, designer clothes and cars.

i worked for a man like this. 'cash is king', he'd always say.

he was there to make it hand over fist. he worked damn hard for it.

what's so bad about that? did it make him a bad person? he was the best boss i ever had and anything but a bad person.

there's WAY more than greed and materialism to blame for peoples' unhappiness.

for some, no, it doesn't buy happiness. for others, it really does.

doesn't mean one is any more right than the other, IYKWIM.

' I'd rather have my co-parent involved in his share of the childcare and domestic stuff.' Me too. My DH does his share. 'led, ideally, by informed intelligent women.' Who could quite easily be SAHPs as well as those selling their labour on the employment market.

But I don't see my life/role as biologically constructed, whether or not I work for money or within the home. And I certainly want the option. Not to be Cherished for Motherhood.

I agree with women having options, I have done both myself which were right at the time (f/t WOH/SAH). I do believe men and women are different though (but equally capable of varying roles) and that gender is not merely socially constructed, but obviously it's abit like nature/nuture as to what extent it is shaped IMO and we are all different after all.

Rose - who are you referring to on the present thread then? I made some tongue in cheek remarks and I think that can be said for a lot of the posters. I don't think anyone came across as grasping.
I don't like that you think it is okay to judge others on such a slim premise and yet get all "sensitive" when people disagree with you.

I will be seeking help to stop!

I was under the impression that Schindler turned his back on greed/ambition in order to save people's lives? I believe he was a better person for that.

How many of you posted on a thread to say you hated people asking for money as a wedding present? Why?

How many have posted wishing to curtail christmas spending? Why?

How many posted on the thread about feeling something was missing with mothering?

All possibly linked to 'affluenza'?

Do you really believe PND is purely biological with no social causes?

Just watched programme about Bruce Parry visiting tribes in S.America

Problems in one tribe stemmed from ill health brought from outsiders/white men and logging.

Another tribe welcomed Parry with a traditional chant 'we welcome brothers from far away'. Parry's conclusion - an overwhelming sense of the strength of their culture and their HAPPINESS. In this particular tribe they did carry out strange rituals such as the grown men letting ants bite them to prove their bravery (any stranger than inflicting a hangover with booze!). I absolutely do not agree with female circumcision.

My conclusion - yes there are serious downsides to tribal living but their happiness stemmed from an acceptance of their life in each stage. They don't strive and strive for that missing key to happiness.

I know I am hypocritical to some extent. Do I live without any luxuries that come from a capitalist society? No of course not! Do I like a new outfit on the rare occasion I can afford it? Of course! Could I really give it all up to live with a tribe? Maybe not. But I have been conditioned by the western society I have been brought up in.

Does our society welcome 'outsiders' in such a way. Not generally (just welcoming, not chanting!).

Again I must point out some tribal living not all.

Just questions and discussion points. If you hadn't noticed a subject I am passionate about!

Puzzlerocks - People receiving presents after childbirth is their choice and you are right I should not judge.

I suppose I meant that women who don't receive exspensive gifts from DH should not feel inadequate. I sensed that from some of the posts they do.

If you receive such a gift (whopping diamond to a bar of chocolate), it brings happiness to giver and receiver, is afforded and is not used to brag or compete with others then great! I absolutely have no right to judge

However sometimes it is done through pressure and used to compete with others. Can you deny that? The exsense of a gift should not be used to prove the depth of one's love

oh and I expect people to disagree that is what a debate is for. I just don't expect to be told I am stupid and ignorant for raising valid points

rose - I think isolation and lack of support probably contribute to many cases of PND. But I suspect PND may have many routes and causes and that is one, for some women. For others, it may be a disposition to depression (I was monitored thoughout pg for this but was OK). And perhaps other causes.

As for tribes, I can't get past the statistic that around a third of children die before their 5th birthday. It might be easier taking care of healthy, surviving children, but at what cost? When I lived in Egypt there was a saying: the first two are for the crows.

If we could marry these two things - more communal support and good health care - I think that would be worth trying. But that is not tribal living - that is something else. Something more than our fragmented modern social lives, but less than a kibbutz. That would be very attractive, I think.

Thank you for the clarification. I absolutely agree with you. I just didn't sense any one upmanship on that particular thread otherwise I probably would have avoided it myself. I do think it is a real pity if anyone felt inadequate because of what others received but I think for the most part people pointed out they were more grateful for a loving and supportive partner which is great.

It's pretty obvious that you are neither stupid nor ignorant. I think AIBU threads are always tough on the OP. I know I tend to wade in heavier than I would on any other sort of thread, tis the nature of the beast. Precisely why I have never attempted one myself, I am too much of a coward.

puzzlerocks - maybe I misread the thread. I was tired and I am pregnant!

I do appreciate that my OP could be construed as inflammatory and I kind of regret not wording it differently! Again I was tired and hormonal!

I have only read OP but my instant reaction is OFGS get real. You are in la-la land.

Watch out, Makemine, the argumentative, querrelsome, 'oh-you're-so-aggro-and-unsupportive' tiresome tribe are out in force tonight.

yes, you never hear 'spaz' or 'mong' or 'retard' in the UK, much less bastard. .

sorry, wrong thread. Ugly Betty thread.

MakemineaGnadT - such a response, whilst your right, I feel adds little to a proper debate

You disagree, great! Now tell me why?

Thanks for the warning expat

I don't care - I think anyone who would rather bring up children in an environment where there is no education, women are abused, disease is rife etc etc are just IDIOTS. Our society is not perfect but I'd take it any day over what OP thinks would be her nirvana. I'd give her 2 weeks before she wanted to come home........

That do you roseability?!

Expat - WTF?

Thought you were of the 'good to have a debate without insulting people tribe'!

You cannot expect people not to 'argue' with such confrontational responses!

it gets tiresome, though, rose, when it seems like the only reason people start threads is to argue.

i mean, what do they get out of it?

i feel for people who are unhappy.

but seriously, posting in AIBU is akin to wearing the OP on a sandwich board, walking round Trafalgar Square at lunchtime with it, and asking random people what they think.

some are going to say, 'um, okay', others agree, others 'meh' and some even 'you're a lunatic'.

Have I personally offended you in any way expat?

makemine - valid points which have been raised. You could try reading some of the other opinions I suppose.

Roseability, I haven't insulted you, I just don't agree with you.