To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

[roseability]

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

Capitalism - erm - you are going to have to find one REMOTE tribe to avoid that

Elitism - again erm - not sure what you mean by that? People are not born equal. Some are born clever, others pretty, others lucky, and the reverse. In your world, do we have to assume that people don't have special talents?

Modern living - don't know how to address that one either. I'd rather do modern living than victorian living. Or prehistoric living for that matter.

Modern living is great. We have cures for lots of illnesses - not all but lots. We have warmth. England is a horribly cold climate, and I NEED my central heating. I love having lots of books and newspapers and espressos and sushi bars and french restaurants. I LOVE IT.

Tribal living - well we are good with our rellies, we are really but I always see them off with a sigh of relief. Living in their pockets would be my idea of hell.

There are so many many upsides to the way we live now. I can hop skip jump and fly to a loverly warm climate, I know my DCs are being educated and even if we do have a Great Depression they won't have to be chimney sweeps.

The average life expectancy in your average prehistoric tribe was around 35. Would you be dead by now? I would ...

'maybe for someone used to western living expat'

well, my grandmother lived as a Mayan woman in a small, remote area of Mexico all her life.

free from capitalism.

she married a man from the next village who made clay bricks when she was 15 and had a daughter at 16.

Spanish Flu came through and killed her husband and daughter within days.

the Mexican Revolution took hold and she nearly starved to death.

she walked all the way to America, doing whatever came her way, because she had a sister there working as a maid in a hotel and she needed to feed herself.

she was pretty miserable during this time.

so being in a remote tribe certainly doesn't insulate one from the world's ills.

I would gladly have lived without hot water if I had been happier and more supported by an understanding community

Instead mothers have to spend long, isolated days with crying babies and do all household chores and look great to boot

These are valid points and not just rose-tinted bollocks

Not at all my experience actually. I did have support, and I didn't look great, but you know what, I was ALIVE. PND is not a disease of modern life. It's just that nobody gives a shit if all anyone cares about is that you work and breed.

communities are over-rated.

Loads of 'communities' have been started by people with similar sentiments s yours. Expect, they always end up turning into cults.

Hmmm, I wonder why?

No hot water? No hot water? My oh my. A day without a lovely hot shower? You're mad.

I have been to subsaharan africa many times - don't know if you have - but I don't want to spend half my day with a socking great big gourd thing on my head collecting water ...

With a socking great big fistula and wee running down my legs

You are bonkers

'Instead mothers have to spend long, isolated days with crying babies and do all household chores and look great to boot'

What do you think women in these tribes do all day? You think the men help with the chores? You think the other women allow them not to pull their weight and sit in the hut all day eating and putting on 5 stone?

They are expected to get on with it. Straightaway, pretty much. Even more so if they are not first wife.

Look, I sense you had a horrible time, and I'm sure PND is just awful, and I'm sorry about that. But the solution is not some mythical golden time in a mythical past or different location, it really isn't. Are you having another child?

Well my mother suffered such severe mental health problems following my birth because she was so isolated and not supported by the community

She had to give me up for adoption and died young at the age of 39. I believe her sufferings were just as bad and partially exasperated by modern living

rose - you are expecting no 2? you had pnd first time round? no wonder youre scared. pnd is not nice.
it doesnt have to be the way it was last time. you dont have to be alone, isolated, miserable and look good.
best of luck

Oh, I invite you to give it a go, rose!

Seriously.

Go someplace with no hot water. With a kid.

No running water, even better.

A place with a rainy season, all the better.

Or a place that's freezing in the morning and hot during the day.

And try it out.

For a couple of months at least.

There is no reason to be isolated though, in our society.

If one finds themselves isolated, it is through choice.

I had PND and it was awful. I'm sure they get it in these remote tribes but the 3 hou trek for water every day might just take precedent.

I've had PND twice. Badly. I'm being treated for AND again.

I'm due anytime and I expect a nice, big crash.

But running away from it all won't help me get better.

It would just make things worse, IME.

Yes, but I'd be DEAD. forgive me for thinking that wouldn't be for the best. I think you are making a huge assumption in that depression is purely a Western thing. If you want support and a community, which can be wonderful, then you do need to seek it out. Find an NCT tea group, make mum friends, reach out to other people, talk to your HV or GP about your fears of a recurrence of your PND, get your partner on board with chores etc.

The thing is rose, it's all very well for people like us from modern wester society to harp on about how much better it would be to live a simple tribal existance, like it's some kind of lifestyle choice.

In reality, if you have no choice about having to live like that, it really doesn't seem to 'sonderful' and the better option.

LOL at it gets old fast

Hey OP, there is nothing whatsoever stopping you from going off to enjoy this tribal life. Lots of tribes still around. Go do it.

Like ma, I would also be dead. If the delivery of DD1 hadn't killed me, the postpartum infection almost certainly would have.

overmydeadbody - my mother was not isolated through choice

I don't want to run away from it all. I have made lots of lovely friends since my first and I have supportive family/husband. I am looking forward to this one

you're not your mother.

this is YOUR life.

time's have changed, you don't have to be isolated any more.

i dont think a community living hand to mouth would have time to be terribly supportive to a woman with pnd, would they? let alone place to fill a prescription for drugs if nec.

Hey I did dead first. I'd be dead too from my ectopic pregnancy.

Everyone has a choice in how thewy live their lives and can make changes if they want to.

While your mother may not have been isolated through choice, she did have the choice to change that (unless she was held prisoner in her own home or housebound or something). here is always a way.

Man is condemned to be free, after all.

my posts seem to cause so much hostility!

What is wrong with wanting people to support each other more?