To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

[roseability]

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

We're not all trying to be nasty matildax.

Just pointing out that society is what we make of it. Noone has to despair as long as they can work to make their own little world better. Trite but true.

It is that attitude of responsibility, I think, that many people feel has been lost- that doesn't mean we can't each of us make a conscious decision that I'm going to have that attitude. There is absolutely no point in waiting until Other People are here for each other- it's got to start with you.

Sitting and dreaming of a tribal existence just seems a pointless exercise- surely there is a new mother or an elderly lady or a sick neighbour somewhere that could do with a hand?

I know quite a few people who are very worried about the state of modern society. But funnily enough, the people who do most to help are the ones who worry least. They don't have the time.

Of course we can't stop other people from being materialistic, caring about possessions, being ruled by the media etc. But we can stop ourselves. And we can raise our children in the way we would like the next generation to behave.

i think we should all just have a group cuddle.

xxxxoooooxxxxxooooo
EIS

ok cory, fair enough. but some posters on here are complaining that life in tribes is hard and brutal.......... ummmmm, have they not watched the news????

our society on the whole is dreadful with greed and jealousy being the reasons for awful vicious crimes.
something if it was possible, i would like to move my family away from. i appreciate in small tribes, these things will happen too, but i doubt it would be as rife, we have way too much, yet we all still strive for more??? couldnt we just enjoy the simple things in life???

Maybe the OP should live in a commune or even live in tepee valley

Hi roseability, i know exactly what you are talking about, and i wish for it on a daily basis. I want a simpler life, where i actually see my husband (he commutes to london and we are not all sitting in our little boxes apart from everyone around us. I have plenty of friends and go out with DS morning and afternoon, but im lonely! I just want to be able to BE with others - and it not be a big deal where we tidy up and get the biccies out!

Im an attachment parent (lite) and although i love being with DS 24/7 i feel it would be so much easier and less artificial if we lived in simple community groups with private areas and communal ones for cooking/eating/hanging out etc. I feel like a lot of the things i do with DS are artificial means of keeping him occupied, when really, id prefer him to be around people carrying out every day tasks.

oh i dont know - just waffling off the top of my head. Just thought id show a bit of solidarity.

I don't mind being seen as 'just a mother' and am enjoying the 'domestic role' and my it being 'biological destiny'.To me fullfilling my families needs is more rewarding than fullfilling the needs of a company.

Human nature is much the same, give or take some fairly minor cultural variations and tolerance of certain behaviours, all over the world.

You have to look out for the kind, caring people and avoid the nasty ones.

My DH's uncle one went and worked with a tribal group like the one you describe.

Maternal mortality rates were 1 in every 8 pregnancies, TB and leprosy were rife. 1 in 4 children died before they reached the age of 5.

This was a group totally isolated from Western influences in Indonesia....they had to get to them by plane and boat, there were no roads.

I wouldn't swap with any of those mothers

I'd rather fulfil my own, thanks. And I'd rather have my co-parent involved in his share of the childcare and domestic stuff. And the chance to get a bit of an education, and read books, and to get away from my extended bloody family.

I do not think that the solution to our rather horrible contemporary society lies in some romanticised past and/or in a place Far Far Away. I think it lies in our collective action - led, ideally, by informed intelligent women.

Bran - I don't expect society to change to suit my personal needs. I expect it to change to suit everybody's needs i.e. to feel valued and supported

I chose a job that reflects my ethos i.e. nursing. I don't lead a materialistic lifestyle. I really try to 'encourage' community amongst my friends and neighbours.

However I am not perfect (I put a goldfish in a stream, which I am utterly ashamed of, not much community spirit there)

As to those who claim I know nothing about remote tribes and that my OP was bollocks, I would like to say that I was refering specifically to the stone age indian tribes of S.America who DO live happily and in support of each other. I have read a lot about them (maybe that was bollocks?). I am not unaware of some of the horrible things that happen in remote tribes e.g. female circumcision and I absolutely object to being portrayed as stupid, when I am making valid points.

Do you really think I want to live with a tribe that beats women? I am an intelligent and informed woman (If a little over sensitive!) who is well read.

At worst I should have worded my OP better and been more specific. I can admit when I am wrong but I do not deserve some of the criticisms here. Yes disagree with me but don't call me stupid! I have merely raised a worthwhile topic

Issues such as depression, affluenza, greed etc ARE worth discussing and do affect our society. I am not romanticising when I say that some tribes have ways which could be beneficial to our society. of course not those that demean women.

If you are happy with every aspect of western society great. I am not. I don't want my son to grow up thinking it is okay to knock people in order to better yourself or to place too much value in material things. Our society has thrived in many ways through progression and competition but it has also suffered.

I really believe that PND can in some cases be partially attributed to the pressure on women. To adhere to our obsession with appearance, to mother according to moral standards dictated by government/media but to do it without much support. I am a nurse so I am aware of other factors behind PND.

There was a post recently about how unhappy women are with mothering. Yes some find it a doddle but a hell of a lot don't. They are unhappy, lonely and struggling. This is not a good aspect of our society. Yes tribal women might feel like this too, especially those who are beaten and dominated by men BUT western women don't feel liberated (well a lot of them don't) a lot are still beaten by men etc.

I shouldn't have brought my mother's experiences into it.

Expat - I enjoy your posts even if you don't agree with me. I thought your grandmother's experiences sound fascinating but obviously harrowing. I really hope you have an easier time with number 3. To everyone who stuck up for me, thanks!

This really is my last post. I am not stupid but I do have a strange inability to swtich off mumsnet and ignore the opinions of strangers!

Ah, Roseability, you've made one slight cock up here, the thread 'about women expecting expensive gifts for giving birth'.. is a thread i started, and had you taken thetime to read it and my following posts, you'll note a) i wasn't expecting any gifts, dh bought them unprompted because he wanted to, b) the handbag i was bought was probably less than some women spend on acouple f pair of shoes

Now, ;m ever so sorry that me being delighted at being bought a handbag has caused you to need to run off witha tribe, but i'm afraid me being chuffed at an unexpected and inexpensicve present and posting about it on mumsnet really isn't the end of the world, and btw, my parenting is nd a still going to produce children that'seem happiuer and less demanding'. I'm afarid there area lot of rather snotty generalisations in your posts, and tbh, if you can't enjoy a lighthearted thread and wish someone well for a small gift a child that they are expecting, well, i'll send you my handbag shall i, to cheer you up?

why not be a real ray of sunshine: there's athread about what people want for Christmas: why not post n it and tell everone what materialistc sh*tebags they are fr wanting a toaster or something?

I understand where roseability is coming from. I think we have lost a lot in the way that we live.
Community spirit, simple pleasures, working for the benefit of everyone, being in touch with nature.
I think the key is to take these values forward and build a society that does make use of our fantastic resources yet also returns to a simpler, happier way of life.
Maybe a society where being money rich is not the answer to everything and where we give back to nature instead of constantly taking

it ALL has to come from within.

you have to turn your back on it - the greed, keeping up with the Jones', whatever you want to call it.

because everywhere you go, you always take the weather.

and like anything else, it's a trade off. with a lot of community spirit often goes what some consider to be a lack of privacy and folks interested in your business.

with help with the housework comes expectations.

and on and on.

FWIW, materialism and greed are intrinsic to human nature that is why the species has evolved as it has.

I don't know about materialism and greed bering intrinsic to human nature. There are plenty of people, historically and in the present who kick against it.
I think comfort and survival are pretty intrinsic though.
And I agree that while it has to come from inside, you can apply it largely to the world around you and try to cahnge your corner of it-hopefully whilst doing so having an effect on the bigger picture

It can only be beneficial for us to look at how we can improve things than just accept things as they are

I still don't want to be Cherished and Domesticated, I want to argue with men on their own terms and to put my feet up with a good book sometimes.

I don't want to live in Morris's News from Nowhere, with women waiting on men. I do quite fancy the utopia in Marge Piercy's Woman on the Edge of time.

But in the meantime this'll do.

yousaidit - wasn't a personal attack on your handbag but on people placing worth on the amount a gift costs and not on the thought behind it. I am delighted your DH thought of you and realise you love your pressie, great

I don't agree with greed no but doesn't mean I begrudge people fun at Christmas. My family will receive gifts like everyone else. I love Christmas actually and receive gifts gratefully

I was shocked at other people's posts on that thread not yours and I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention. I maybe should have been more specific

yousaidit - wasn't a personal attack on your handbag but on people placing worth on the amount a gift costs and not on the thought behind it. I am delighted your DH thought of you and realise you love your pressie, great

I don't agree with greed no but doesn't mean I begrudge people fun at Christmas. My family will receive gifts like everyone else. I love Christmas actually and receive gifts gratefully

I was shocked at other people's posts on that thread not yours and I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention. I maybe should have been more specific

Oh, greed and materialism are definitely instrinsic to the nature of many. And it may or may not be an entirely bad thing, as it has advanced some societies into getting rid of some of the very problems mentioned on this thread.

It can be bad, but it can be good, too.

It's like anything else.

How can greed be good?
Is these the 80's?
I don't see how the greedy have helped anyone
I think more of the earlier mentioned problems were solved by social reformers or suffragettes or other idealistic people.
Materialistic money makers may have built ion it and provided more choice but they didn't create better living standards for all

Greed can be good in that it can motivate someone to invent something in order to make money or more money or to sell something to make money, but has the added effect of making work more efficient.

Open your mind! Think back, WAY back, not just bankers and the 1980s.

Greed has often motivated people to improve upon themselves and had a knock on effect.

Many money makers have indeed improved living standards for more than just themselves. Bill Gates, for example, is one of the world's greatest philanthropists.

It's a generalisation to say that all materialism and greed are always bad the same way it is to say tribal or communal living are always good.

But ambition is different to greed, you are confusing the two issues.
People who follow a calling, have a natural talnet, or just want to better themselves are ambitiuos, lots of good can come of that, but if it is only greed driving you, then surely that is vacuous?
My mind is open thanks
I claimed an ideal would be to take the beat from both ways of life and move forward, I didn't state that either was an ideal.
I think most open minded people agree that we have plunderd our resources recklessly and taken a wrong turn somewhere- this was the basis of the 60's peace movement- to use our instincts and try to repair some damgae while there is still time (environmentally)

i am most certainly not confusing the terms at all, mrsr.

do you think oskar schindler was a nice, ambitious man who just happened to make up a list of people to save in the Holocaust.

no, he started out just another greedy businessman wanting to make as much fast money out of slave labour as possible.

but then, when he decided to do what he did, he used what everyone thought was his greedy character to fool them.

i know plenty of people whose sole motivation in 'improving themselves' is to make money. as much as possible. if they are coming by it legitimately then it usually has the knock on effect of improving the standard of living of those around them. did you see Bobski the Builder last night? and his mates. ALL saying, 'we're only going here to make money. our only reason for going is to make as much money as possible.'

again, not all bad at all. the money goes to pay for their families.

they're not there to be altruists or spread sunshine.

Bet remote tribes have problems with their wireless internet access. What would I do if I couldn't mumsnet