To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

[roseability]

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

Heyjude, what you described about Indian culture is very similar to the Chinese culture. Believe me, the average Western woman would Never go for that amount of interference in what is a largely private bonding time between a mother and her new baby, the seemingly meaningless rituals and nasty herbs, large doses of uninformed parental advice handed out without concern for the mother's feelings. Help does not just stop at housework, oh no, it goes beyond - that is communal living.

Wonder if OP would be happy for another woman to breastfeed her child? But she is gone anyway.

The disease of Western culture is that it raises expectations, not just materialism, but also the expectation of medical care, safe and weatherproof housing, sanitation etc. I suspect if anyone with such expectations expects to happily blend into tribal life scratching a living out of the gentle earth would find herself in for a rude shock, supported as she might be by her tribal members.

My SIL is Chinese and she found it very stressful when her family visited after her giving birth as they would not let her do anything, even tried to stop her from going for a walk. She much preferred the Western way of letting a woman decide for herself. (after all, if you are in charge you can decide to let the housework slip- I think it's harder if you are forced back into bed every time you try to sneak out to see a friend).

I understand what you're saying Roseability, and I am sorry that you've had a rough time in the past.

But Bran does have a point: a caring community is not made up of the other people- it's made up of us! No point in complaining about society: you are society.

There are no laws in Western society that forbid us to help an elderly neighbour with the shopping or offer to collect somebody else's children from preschool. I found once I started doing things, it also got easier to ask for things. I also feel a lot happier about bringing up my children when I know they are not learning materialistic uncaring values from me.

We have a very strong caring community around here, but it's because we look out for one another and try to think of ways to help, rather than complaining about society. Stuff society- this is us and we have a choice!

well, as bad as western society may seem to some people..i love it..and wouldn't wanna live in tribe for a day.....i get culture shock just going to doncastor.

Can anyone give an example of a remote tribe that is egalitarian and respectful of women and children? Can't think of any myself. And that's without having to think about superstition, lack of medical knowledge and modern comforts.

Imagine having to live with your mil and be bossed around by her! Imagine having to live like that without airconditioning (it's over 35 degrees here for weeks and weeks in summer)!

rofl at doncaster. Hard hat on I hope

Nope I would love to not be embroiled in capitalism, all we need is a home, friends and family and food, I'm all for a simple life and shared community living. There is a tribe/country somewhere that has refused to have money because they are all so happy and want to protect what they have. I'm sure if you wanted to hunt and wot not there's a tribe that would let you.

I don't think I'd adjust to a mud hut so well though.

I'd just like to not be hassled by paying a single bill or doing an iota of admin, and not have any media at all.

I'm on the dead list too (&dd)
Probably dss too if Dh was left to look after them

The western worlds love of diamonds (not me prefer garnets) actually helps communities as long as the deal is fair. This would explain why Oxfan unwrapped have diamonds as one of their gifts.

BTW I know of several communes in this country if you want their info.

Poor Rose - please come back.
Mumsnet is a prime example of community ie people gossip and chat and exchange views, some of which are helpful, some not, people fall out and make friends.
To survive (thrive) in a community you have to take the rough with the smooth.

Community is everywhere in our society, families, work friends, school gate friends, toddler group friends, neighbours etc. You just have to get in there.

I feel like felicity kendal in the good life I'd love to be self suffient, I'm far happier gardening than shopping. Does the commune have a dishwasher and induction hob?

mabanana

Of course I have heard of female genital mutilation. But the post did not say, I want to go and live in a tribe where women have their genitals mutilated. You are the one who assumed that all tribes do this!

I'm surprised that merely contemplating living in a remote tribe has provoked such strong negative reaction to be honest. I can't see what the issue is with debating the pros and cons.

It is rather a sweeping generalisation that all tribes perform this terrible thing.

I don't think OP would like to live with a tribe of cannibals either.

I absolutely did not say that all tribes did this and you know it. As I said before, the OP has a ridiculously rose tinted view of life in tribal societies. Life is hard, and it is particularly hard for women. FGM is a fact of life for many women in remote tribal communities.

There is a reason why you have communes or ashwams dotted across the Indian countryside, where tired westerners create their own little tribal community, with more or less western hygiene and electricity. You give up, slowly but surely, your life and your money, in return for community spirit and the blessing of a guru.

'But isn't India where women are set on fire for not having a good dowry, and baby girls are aborted/dumped for not being boys?'

Yes, that's why I said:

'Yes there are mental illnesses, massive amounts of poverty and exploitation as well as unfair practices against women'

I am not suggesting taking the whole of a different culture and applying it to your life, just look at different aspects of it and see if it could make a difference in your own life - and once again - if you want it to.

I, for one, appreciated the help I got when I went to India with ds who was one at the time. My SIL feed him and my MIL played with him so for the first time in a year I could have a lie-in. I was really strict about what they feed him and the rituals spoken of by another poster were no more demanding in my case than having a few prayers said over him, something my dh thought was important.

And who said that 'traditional cultures' have less complexity than Western ones?

Sorry that should be fed, not feed

I think you should have made your original post more clear then. I know that FGM happens all over the world, but most definitely not everywhere. I just don't see how you came up with your response.

Duh! Because I am pointing out some of the things to be grateful about in our supposedly horrible, materialistic society! Tribal life is not this wonderful sunny world where everyone helps each other. The number of remote tribes where women get any say at all in their lives is very small indeed. Marital rape IS routine, and FGM is very common. We should be bloody grateful to live in a world where women are not chattels.

HeyJude07 on Fri 17-Oct-08 13:18:23

"I, for one, appreciated the help I got when I went to India with ds who was one at the time. My SIL feed him and my MIL played with him so for the first time in a year I could have a lie-in. "

Sounds great and I certainly don't agree with those suggesting that other societies have got to be horrible.

But tbh absolutely no reason why you couldn't have that in the UK if you had your family close at hand. I had all these things and my family travelled a long way to be ensure that. Know many English families who are incredibly supportive of one another. Not only families either, but neighbours, members of the same NCT group, families of the children's friends at school etc. There is nothing inherent in our society that says we can't look after one another.

I am very grateful about the society I live in. And I do agree that the OP had a rose-tinted view. I still do not agree with your original response, in which you immediately associated tribal life with FGM, face scarring, and rape. You presented these things as if this is what happens in all tribes, all of the time, everywhere.