To hate materialism/western world and want to live with a remote tribe

[roseability]

Chilrearing seems to be so hard and everyone so unhappy

We must have gone wrong somewhere?

I personally blame capitalism, elitism and modern living/parenting

The thread about women expecting exspensive gifts for giving birth is an example

In some traditional tribes people fulfil their natural purpose and experience true happiness. Mothering is cherised and supported by the community.

Their children seem happier and are less demanding.

They don't lust after diamond rings or push their LOs into hundreds of activities in order to make them better, bigger, stronger.

Just a thought

Er, I think you have a really weird viewpoint if you think people pointing out that it's no so great if you are DEAD is a 'hostile' POV. I haven't seen you acknowlege one single person who has pointed that out, even though you have had sympathetic comments about your PND.

That's not what you said in your op though.
We're arguing against th notion that life would be better on a remote tribe.

I suppose what I was really suggesting is not that we should all go and live with remote tribes but that we should live more like tribes here.

For example, women helping each other with housework and childrearing

hideous reality of childbirth in a remote tribe

Not hostility Rose - it's been the most cheery thread I've read for ages - really made me count my blessings - hot showers, medical care, education, books, restaurants, coffee shops,

wow you've cheered me up no end.

Where are you going for your simple tribal life? Are you going to try subsaharan africa? Latin America? Papua New Guinea?

I wouldn't have minded extra support but I want to keep: modern medicine, hot and cold water, oven, GCH, computer, TV and comfy bed. Don't think it should be an either/or option.

I lived in subsaharan Africa (and north Africa). Kids were well behaved - but it came at a price. Discipline for both black and white Africans, was very severe by our standards, both at home and at school.

Rose - my mother, single in a foreign country, also gave me up for adoption and yes, this might be less likely to happen in a commumal environment. Commumnal living is like family - it can be good, but when it's bad - it's really bad. And it just doesn't suit everyone. When it does work - then I think it probably is a good way to organise social living.

I didn't live in the tribal areas but I worked in some and had VSO friends that lived that life. It's a hard life - and the vast majority want what we have for the same reasons we want it.

There is something about life in remote areas which can really make you feel as though you are alive - but it's because we come from our comfortable western world that we can afford to feel that frisson and enjoy it.

I did fistulas too - mabanana - that's a charity we support!!! Wow again.

Now to the OP. I like my neighbours, I do really. I just don't want to see them very often. If you want to do more community stuff there are lots of community organisations.

Isn't that the beauty of modern living? We get to be how we want to be?

mabanana I sense anger unnecessarily

It was just a discussion starter because I am bored and can't sleep

I do acknowledge other people's viewpoints and I certainly don't insult people deliberately. I know people die in tribes through lack of medical supplies etc

I would just like my children to grow up in a society where people support each other.

I always seem to get people's backs up on mumsnet thus I am retiring.

I wish you all well

And I might point out that half of Angelina's kids, and a third of Madonna's were given up for adoption despite (or because of?) coming from poor rural communities.

Roseability,
I'm sending you a big hug right now!

I think you sound like you're awfully afraid that you will be without support in this crazy materialistic world we western folk live in, and if I'm entirely honest, you sound like you are depressed now.

I do hope that your pregnancy goes well, and you have a happy birth and a healthy recovery.

I also hope that you have the support you need, emotional and physical, and if you don't at the moment, that you know how to find it - that you're not too 'brave' and don't just put on a brave face.

You sound like you're all caught up with your Mother's story, and I'm sensing that you feel the same things will happen to you, but, as another poster said on here, "You are NOT your mother", and I agree with this 100% - you are not your mother, she had her own life.

Your life is yours, you have your own path to find and your own journey, your mother walked her own path - I do hope you have a lovely pregnancy and birth, and post birth time, free from worries and anxiety.

Please keep us posted about how you are and how things work out for you.

I'm sending you big hugs.

I think when people give very personal, heartfelt information such as , 'I would have died. My children would have died, if I lived this so-called ideal life' that ought not be ignored if you want a discussion. HOwever, I agree with Zazen. I have said I am sorry you were depressed, and I think Zazen is right, that your mother's sad story is preying on your mind as you prepare to have another child, and I'm sorry about that. The idea about tribes and all the support you think you'd get there, is just a red herring.

i,d love it there could i take me tv/sky me bath my local hospital / tesco supermarket oh yeh and me car yep i,m up for it
better still can i just send me hubby !!

those who are opting out of conventional society, please cat me. i would like your cash, jewellery and things of value, tv's cd players, i pods and computers.

i do not want organic veg or chickens

thank you

lol

This is a sobering thread. Not sure that i or my twins (both breech) would be here if I'd had to give birth somewhere without hospitals, c-sections and all the medical wherewithal I had here. i can see the appeal of a lovely cosy tribe and I enjoyed my "back-to-basics" time in kenya (a mere 2 weeks and actually there was SOME electricity at the project I was staying on) BUT for a lifetime - no thank you. Roseability, I think your personal experience with pnd (and your own mother's) is very sad but frankly, we should all thank our lucky stars for the mainly SAFE, CLEAN and DISEASE-FREE living conditions we enjoy today. Many are less fortunate.

'For example, women helping each other with housework and childrearing '

But the children aren't 'reared' as they are here. They are expected to look after one another and themselves and contribute to the community through work, too. Many do not get the chance to go to school, full time especially, and learn the way children do here.

Like someone said, by the time they are 4 or so, they're looking after themselves.

And the 'housework' isn't just to tidy up and keep the menfolk in yummy dinners. It's life and death sort of stuff - drawing water, cutting wood so you can cook, foraging for food or trying to grow it, digging for toilets, etc.

It's backbreaking stuff you have to work together to do or you die, regardless if you like one another or not. It's not friendly cups of tea confessing how you feel about a remark your shared husband made 2 days ago.

Can I also remind you that the Continuum Concept was written by a young woman who did not have anthropology training at the time she lived with that tribe. I read it a few years back but I remember she was at a loss of what to do and she travelled with a team from Italy to ...(can't remember). She lived there for a bit, then wrote about her recollections. The scientific method of studying tribes will have come to her later, long after the observations made. All I'm saying is that it's just a story, not some life-changing piece of writing.

I think that people here are being a bit harsh on rose.

I know the OP was worded a bit strangely, but I understand the sentiment.

No I don't want to go and live in a remote tribe with no running water or electricity and I am sure that is what rose meant as well, but it would be nice to see people free of the neverending quest to get the new this or that.

Yes, wanting to help your child to become "bigger, better and stronger" is pretty criminal really.
I agree with a lot of Jean Liedloff's principles but as for having a shag while my baby is in the same bed. Are you kidding me?

"My daughter isn't going to have her clitoris cut off with a rusty blade and have her vagina sewn up. My son isn't going to have his face cut and scarred, and I'm not going to have to sleep on a hard floor, do hard physical work until I die and be raped on my 'wedding night' by a total stranger who will have the right to demand sex when he likes and never kiss me or help me in any way, and who I will have to obey or be beaten by."

This is one of the most ridiculous and ignorant posts I have ever read on this website!

mabanana - you ignoramus!

Roseability, I can see why people are disagreeing and they have some valid points.

But so do you.

Bringing up children without many of the thigs we take for granted is hard. Doing so out of choice, in a rich Western country, seems like lunacy to a lot of people. There are however lots of people in Britain doing just that, and whilst I disagree with the notion that it is easier for women in remote trbes, there are certain rewards to turning away from materialism etc.

If it is something that really interests you, have you looked into communal living in the UK? Diggers and Dreamers is a good site to start from

hilaaaarious.

You want to live with a remote tribe...did it ever occur to you that a remote tribe might not want to live with you?

Contrary to what your telly tells you, the world is not full of tribal people sitting around, just wishing that they might be lucky enough to have some Western (probably white) person pitch up and be generally useless.

Roseability seems to think that there is no mental illness/PND in remote tribes.

There must be, logically.

Difference is, rather than getting ADs and treatment, you'd have a shaman doing an exorcism on you to chase out the bad spirits.