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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be unbelievably annoyed by this twatting report??? May be upsetting!

263 replies

loudandproud · 09/10/2008 16:43

I have been doing some reading up on the James Bulger case recently for a project we have been doing.

It's such a horrid case my heart really does go out to his family and friends.

But whilst trawling the many many stories and articles about it, I have found one that seems to be all in the anuimals who killed hims favour. It seems to be a case of well they were abused so yes thats what abused children do.

NO IT'S NOT! I worked with abused children for a while and never once have I heard any child or anyone working alongside saying they knew a child who had done something anything like this.

That poor child was tortured and left like a piece of meat to be cut in half by a train at 2Years old, but thats okayt becaus ethe killers were abused, I don't think so.

I do apologise if I am offending anyone by saying this but they lost the right to breath the day they did this perhaps they should have been put in a cell with a big tough cell mate see how they like being tortured, terrified and abused by someone who should know better.

ARGH am so sorry but had to vent.

OP posts:
solidgoldskullonastick · 09/10/2008 22:46

The thing is, quite a lot of 10 year olds could go nearly that far, egging each other on, not really understanding what they were doing or not believing that some hurts are more life-threateninng than others, but mostly when children start getting too violent with each other, someone or something intervenes.

Heathcliffscathy · 09/10/2008 22:46

no one wants to hear that solid. or to think about it. much less acknowledge it.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:47

I have never said i hate them or suggested any cruelty or violence toward the 2 boys.. I abhor violence and cruelty.

I simply feel that the nature and severity of their crime leads me to believe that they should never have been released back into the community.

It's my opinion, just as yours is opposite... Please don't assume to suggest i condone cruelty and violence in any instance.

Ronaldinhio · 09/10/2008 22:47

mamazon, what they did to james was wrong and they knew that it was wrong.... torturing and killing a small upset child and leaving his body on railway tracks in the hope that the train driving over him would prevent their crime being discovered...sounds like a prank gone wrong...not at all it was truly awful..their responses were awful and he was the second child that they had tried to take
the idea that they were physically abused at home was a supposition btw and one that was grasped readily by those of us that had to hang the criminality on some trigger point or abuse in their background

HRHSaintMamazon · 09/10/2008 22:47

Since you asked Barnsley - I know of a 9 year old who was sexually and violantly abused by one of his mothers boyfriends.
mother was a drug addict but had somehow managed to escape authority radar.

She and stepfather had a baby together and teh violance towards the boy increased.
he became obsessed with fire. he would play with lighters and matches, watching the flame burn down to his fingers. teh tips of all 10 fingers had severe scaring from burns.

stepdad foudn him with a lighter one day and beat him and then forced him to perform oral sex.

he left him laying in his own blood on the floor of his bedroom.

The boy waited until his parents were asleep, went to their room and locked teh door. he then pulled all his blankets from his bed and placed them outside of their bedroom door before setting fire to them.
he waited until he could hear his stepfather and mother screaming before leaving teh house.

he sat in the green outside and watched the house burn down.

he deliberatly killed his mother stepfather and baby sister.

He had been abused so badly thaty he just snapped. he has been assesed and assesed and assesed but he ha no mental illness other than severe post traumatic stress.

Yes, children who are so badly abused DO act in such a violant way. we just dont hear of it in the same way we did with JB

Heathcliffscathy · 09/10/2008 22:47

i was talking about those that 'wish they were gone' and want them dead and want to hear them screaming was it?

SaintGeorge · 09/10/2008 22:48
mamadiva · 09/10/2008 22:49

barnsley I think she meant me

I think you have been very level headed about this.

I on the other hand am actually getting very pee'd off talking about now.

Heathcliffscathy · 09/10/2008 22:49

thanks darling. i'm off.

IorekByrnison · 09/10/2008 22:50

Was about to recommend Cries Unheard but see that artichokes beat me to it. It is a very good book. You might hate it OP, but you should read it.

SmugColditz · 09/10/2008 22:50
  1. They were 10. 10.

They were only months past the age of criminal responsibility in this country and had it happened anywhere else in Europe they would have gone into care, not into jasil, as they would have been deemed neurologicaly incapable of understanding the consequences of what they had done.

And this, bear in m,ind, comes ffrom the mother of a .5 year old little boy. My sister was 2 when this happened and it nearly destroyed me as an older child, I knew it was a wrong thing they had done but even at 12 I had no fucking comprehension of what had actually happened.

I hate this subject, I fucking hate it, it's sick, it's mindless, purposeless specualtion. I have had a shitty evening typing notes for my friend who was raped when she was six then I switch this thing on and find a row about wanting two ten year old little boys tortured.

What in God's name does that make you, if you want to kill children?

They may have done a very very very wrong and bad thing, the worst thing that has happened in this country for years and years, but people on this thread are ascribing adult emotions, capabilities and responsibilities to two children who, in other circumstances, Mumsnetters would be saying were too young to be left at home alone.

I don't know what they deserve, but if you think 10 year olds should be tortured or 'turned over to the parents' you need to take a long hard fucking look at yourself and your ability to think through the tabloid befrenzied hysteria. And you need to wait until youir child turns ten and see if you still feel the same way, or perhaps have a more realistic understanding of the nature of 10 year olds. I still believed in fucking magic when I was 10.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:53

They don't understand that some "hurts are more life threatening". They put him on the railway line for crying out loud!

And yes, i have 3 brothers who were all 10 at some point.

The abuse and violence in the homes of the 2 boys was reported in the papers, but never proven despite investigation.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 22:55

You are totally misinterpretting what I say sophable...

  1. I want them gone, yes I do because then I know that they nwon't do what they did before ever again. Don't see how that's wrong?
  1. I don't want to hear them scream couldn't be arsed with their whiney little pity me voices, they took away all sympathy from me when they took James away I just don't see why they shouldve been able to run to someone for comfort when they stopped James from having any chance of that whilst they were torturing him.

I am assuming you would happily live on a street of [peadophiles as of course they hasve been rehabilitated well we can agree to disagree I see it differently from you difference is I dont start name calling with people who dont agree with me I listen to them then express my POV something which some are clearly not capable of having afterall only one person can have the say now cant they

2shoesdrippingwithblood · 09/10/2008 22:57

I don't wish them dead.
as people have said they were 10. I do not believe that they were some kind of product of their enviroment. if that was the case all deprived, abused dc's would be murderes.
but I do not feel that they should have a free life, with changed names and protection.
I feel they should have served longer.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 22:58

I SHALL GET ON MY SOAPBOX WITH MY MEGAFONE NOW!

AHEM I DO NOT WANT TO KILL CHILDREN BUT I DO NOT THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED ANNONYMITY AS ADULTS THEY SHOULD NOT BE PROTECTED THEY ARE OLDER THAN ME NOW FFS DEAL WITH IT!

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 23:00

Smugcolditz.... If my 10 year old son perpetrated such a horrific, prolonged period of abuse and murder of a 2 year old child i would wonder what on earth i had given birth to. I would be ashamed and instead of thinking of him and myself i would never sleep for thinking of the boy that had suffered at his hands.

HRHSaintMamazon · 09/10/2008 23:01

the law in this country says that once you have served your time in jail you are free to live your life back in society.
DEAL WITH IT!

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 23:02

I totally agree witn you again barnsely I think Id find it very hard t comprehend my son doing anything like that, I honeslty dont think I could deal with it f he did.

whooosh · 09/10/2008 23:02

Some interesting (and eloquent) points rasied in this.....but If James Bulger were my child and had suffered as he did,I would be happy to see the perpetrators skinned alive.....am just not convinced rehabilitaion works...sorry.

I don't have the experience of other posters but I would really struggle with these two being given a protected life abhorrent if I were James's Mother.

Ronaldinhio · 09/10/2008 23:03

sorry still disagree that they were actually abused or especially deprived etc etc. Almost some reverse snobbery was used in the press to help us process and reconcile this crime.
Some truancy and from a socially deprived area but no actual evidence of abuse etc etc just supposition and creative journalism leading to lazy journalism that trotted out the same "facts" about RV and JT.
Anyway social deprivation and truancy do not equal thhis outcome.
Very rare crime for children to treat other children in this way especailly the snatching and premeditation
very very sad and odd but please lets not all get out of our boxes?

2shoesdrippingwithblood · 09/10/2008 23:03

shows that sometimes the big men get it wrong. how long did they serve?
the parents of JB are serving a life sentance. they will never ever get over it.
I hate the way people try to excuse this kind of stuff. by claiming it is all down to the boys upbringing.
has it ever crossed your mind that they may just be evil.

mabanana · 09/10/2008 23:04

I agree with Colditz. Oh, the irony of adults who fantastise about children being killed and hearing them scream and who boast about having no pity at all for their tears, proudly condemning children who killed a child and had no pity...

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 23:04

mamadiva.... I'm desperate for my quilt, but don't want to leave you to face this alone!!!!!!

HRHSaintMamazon · 09/10/2008 23:04

well could i justy suggest that you go to your childrens bedroom, take a long hard look at them and then imagine that you had a crowd of thousands outside desperatly wanting to get inside and kill them.

No matter how much sympathy you had for Mrs Bulger you would fight till your death to keep those crowds away from your child.

And you are deluding yourself if you think differently

edam · 09/10/2008 23:05

I believe in the possibility of rehabilitation for most crimes and most criminals. But not Thompson and Venables. What they did was unspeakably cruel. They knew what they were doing was cruel and wrong. Too dangerous to be allowed to walk the streets IMO.

The 'experts' who assessed them may have decided they were safe to be released. Doesn't mean those experts were right. The only reliable factor in judging whether someone will offend is a history of offending. Apart from that it's largely guesswork.

It's entirely possible that one of them has already gone on to harm someone else - we'd never be told.