to be unbelievably annoyed by this twatting report??? May be upsetting!

[loudandproud]

I have been doing some reading up on the James Bulger case recently for a project we have been doing.

It's such a horrid case my heart really does go out to his family and friends.

But whilst trawling the many many stories and articles about it, I have found one that seems to be all in the anuimals who killed hims favour. It seems to be a case of well they were abused so yes thats what abused children do.

NO IT'S NOT! I worked with abused children for a while and never once have I heard any child or anyone working alongside saying they knew a child who had done something anything like this.

That poor child was tortured and left like a piece of meat to be cut in half by a train at 2Years old, but thats okayt becaus ethe killers were abused, I don't think so.

I do apologise if I am offending anyone by saying this but they lost the right to breath the day they did this perhaps they should have been put in a cell with a big tough cell mate see how they like being tortured, terrified and abused by someone who should know better.

ARGH am so sorry but had to vent.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1312388/The-long-and-painful-road-to-a-life-long-sense-of-re morse.html A lifelong sense of remorse]

Ok, this time it will work

thanks for those links Mabanana.

this is interesting to know "Their crime is not one which is expunged by the Rehabilitation Act 1974. They will be on licence and liable to be recalled to custody for the rest of their lives if they do not comply with the terms of their licence."

"Newspaper stories about Thompson being involved in violent incidents have been found to be untrue" well whadayouknow!

beanieb I don't agree with, but they still are entitled to say it.

and "Venables turned his bedroom into a shrine to Manchester United. As part of the preparation for his release, he was recently taken with his father to watch the team play at Old Trafford. The thinking behind such outings is to get him used to being among large crowds and to try to reduce his fear of being recognised and attacked. Thompson chose to attend Shakespeare productions at Stratford-upon-Avon for his outings." so not so much that they were taken on endless trips but that they were given the opportunity to learn how to be in public and a part of society without feeling threatened and overawed.

did you know that we (the UK) acually breached the Human Rights Act in how we dealt with the offenders. I can't remember exactly how we did?

The UK is one of the most punitive countries in Europe. We send more young people to prison than any other country in Europe (GOLDSON).

Right, I don't want to comment on this thread anymore as I think it will go on forever and I am still a bit worried that a family member or friend could be very upset by us talking about something so openly.

it is interesting how other countries deal with this kind of murder. I remember reading this article ages ago and thinking it was a much more human way of dealing with young offenders like this.

Upwind, I'm not an expert. I studied this case as part of my criminology many years ago. The details of it go far far beyond bullying and natural cruelty of kids.

They showed that they did not understand the lines between reality and fantasy. They acted out the film Child's Play with alarming accuracy. And whereas most children who have done something wrong try to cover it up, or feel ashamed, they really didn't understand all the fuss. They had no idea about what they had done, they knew they were in trouble, but to them it was no more trouble than they'd have got if they'd squashed a mouse.

Please don't draw comparisons with other cases such as Mary Bell. These two children had NO empathy, NO understanding, NO remorse, NO conscience. It frightened me then and it frightens me now.

But I would not bay for their blood.

Everyone is entitled to there own views on this matter no one is setting up a man hunt to go and find them two killers so the are just expressing there views on the matter.

The whole James bulger thing makes me feel sick and there is some very sick people in this country if you facebook Jamie bulger or James alot of horrible sick groups come up and I even think there was a gross Youtube video.

why would anyone facebook Jamie bulger

Seriously - why?

You will always have weird wankers that will postthings - but why would anyone look for it ?
Why would anyone look for stuff like that on youtube either.
My ds regularly uses youtube and i always check his history. If you are not looking for it why would you know it is there?

2shoes I think though that it's perfectly possible to be of the opinion that the two boys shouldn't be released, without wishing them pain and suffering/torture or that they would "do away with themselves" (or words to that effect).

It's the talk of torture and suffering that I think has got some people so , because while no-one would dispute that what they did was abhorrent beyond words, the fact remains that they were two 10 year old children.

if they have been rehabilitated, then they will live with what they did for the rest of their lives, and the pain and suffering that people wish upon them will in a sense come true.

They did actually receive an unfair trial and their lawyers appealed to that effect in 1999 and won. The basis was that they were tried in an adult court, were put in the dock, with all the judges/lawyers etc in their formal legal dress as per an adult hearing.

They were not seated with their parents as had been the case with Mary bell some years previous.

beanieb - interesting article. I would want the children to be punished and I certainly would'nt want them in school with my children.

Many, many people have committed murder.

Why should children be punished more harshly than adults?? Because we find their crime more shocking? It is more shocking! But that doesn't mean that their crime was worse than an adult's (who did the same thing).

It seems obvious to me that a child who murders should be punished less severely, not more severely.

Don't like witchhunts.

Its a hard subject. It was a disgusting crime that these two children committed and they needed to be punished and rehabillitated (if possible). They were only 10 when they committed these crimes and although I think they should be supervised for the rest of their lives - they should be allowed to try and have normal lives now.
My heart goes out to James and his family.

pag I wonder that too.

Rhubarb but there are similarities. Mary Bell didn't torture the two children she killed (I'd never read about Mary Bell until today, had heard about her but never read any details). But she killed the first child and never said anything. On the day she killed the second child (and she had an accomplice, her 13 year old best friend, Norma Bell, who was not convicted), she even went out to help look for the boy when he had been reported missing. She too showed no remorse during her trial. Different to Thompson and Venables though she was only convicted of manslaughter.

After James Bulger's body was found, Robert Thompson laid a single red rose at the spot where his body was found (according to the artacle I linked to above).

The killings were different, but the behavior of the victims were similar. But because most people were not around at the time Mary Bell was convicted, there isn't the emotion surrounding what she did that there is for Thompson and Venables.

pagwatch i was not looking for it James Bulgers uncle had set up a different group to make facebook shut down the sick groups

Interestingly there doesn't seem to have been a witch hunt for Mary Bell at the time she was convicted or at the time when she was released.

Maybe attitudes here have hardened since the 1960s.

pingpong

twas a general rather than at you.
I just don't get why anyone would look at these things....

This is a description of the family of Robert Thompson, whose father left and whose mother was a neglectful alcoholic.
"Most of the boys were bright. Robert was number five of seven. In Crosbies corner shop Ian, the next oldest to Robert, was able to tot up the shopping in his mind before the cash register rang up the total. He was always getting prizes for maths at school. Ian was clever enough to know that to survive he had to get out.

Get out and get into Dyson Hall children's centre, the only residential care school in the country just outside Liverpool. Three years ago, after his mother walloped him, he went to social services and asked them to put him in care. Since his 14-year-old brother, Phillip , had already tried to stab him, the social services agreed. The boys at Dyson Hall were the object of some envy among their mates because they were given tracksuits and trainers upon arrival and went on trips to Alton Towers. But after a year they let Ian out again. So he came home. After a while he tried to commit suicide to get back in. He took a jar of paracetamol. It worked.

But Robert was stuck in Walton with his older brothers and the baby. There was a pattern of bullying, with the older boys picking on their younger brothers down the line. Robert passed this down the line bullying his eight-year-old brother into playing truant."

Aha - you are right about Mary Bell, seems she was a psychopath too.

On 17 December 1968 Mary Bell was acquitted of murder but convicted of "manslaughter due to diminished responsibility," the jury taking their lead from her diagnosis by court-appointed psychiatrists who described her as displaying "classic symptoms of psychopathology". She was sentenced to be "detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure": effectively an indefinite sentence of imprisonment.

It would be interesting to read a psychologist's report of her now. As for no media attention, apparently there was a media scrum surrounding the case and when she was transferred to an adult detention centre. Her mother tried to make money by selling bits of writings she claimed were Mary's.

She was hounded by the press and forced out of her house with her daughter, with bedsheets over their heads. She has now been granted anonymity for her and her daughter for life.

Does make you wonder how close an eye they keep on them doesn't it? Was the father of her baby told about Mary's history? Were they ever planning on telling the daughter?

Does make me shudder to think of those two boys going off and getting girlfriends, having babies, and no-one knowing any the wiser. I think potential partners have a right to know. If you are planning to have children with someone like that, surely you need to know that?

mabanana clearly this family was a disaster waiting to happen. I'd be interested to know what happened to the rest of the family after Thompson was convicted - were the rest of the children taken into care/were social services involved with the family at all I wonder.

Rhubarb I do agree that a partner of someone who has committed such a hidious act has a right to know, but how do you tell someone something like that? Even if you have been rehabilitated and could never ever contemplate doing something like that again, the doubt would always be there - I just don't believe that anyone, how ever much they loved someone, could 100% accept what they had done and accept that they wouldn't do it again.

And at what point could you possibly tell your children?

Mary Bell could be a mumsnetter for all we know. In fact in a world where people can be what they want to be online I would imagine it's almost certain that there are murderers and puerpitrators of other horrific crimes in our midst online.

Rhubarb: my understanding is that Thompson and Venables never even saw the film Child's Play: this was a myth put about by the bucketheads at The Sun.

god save us if one's attitude to rehabilitation and adolescent crime comes from currant bun

might as well ask the daily mail about single mums

Maybe we should adopt the Chinese approach. Short trials, followed by a quick execution, and the bill for the bullet to go to the family... Much simpler and cheaper no?