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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be unbelievably annoyed by this twatting report??? May be upsetting!

263 replies

loudandproud · 09/10/2008 16:43

I have been doing some reading up on the James Bulger case recently for a project we have been doing.

It's such a horrid case my heart really does go out to his family and friends.

But whilst trawling the many many stories and articles about it, I have found one that seems to be all in the anuimals who killed hims favour. It seems to be a case of well they were abused so yes thats what abused children do.

NO IT'S NOT! I worked with abused children for a while and never once have I heard any child or anyone working alongside saying they knew a child who had done something anything like this.

That poor child was tortured and left like a piece of meat to be cut in half by a train at 2Years old, but thats okayt becaus ethe killers were abused, I don't think so.

I do apologise if I am offending anyone by saying this but they lost the right to breath the day they did this perhaps they should have been put in a cell with a big tough cell mate see how they like being tortured, terrified and abused by someone who should know better.

ARGH am so sorry but had to vent.

OP posts:
Eniddo · 09/10/2008 17:25

this is a stupid and pointless thread

Upwind · 09/10/2008 17:34

OP - YABU, they were children themselves.

soon2be3 - I am glad you no longer work in a nursery. That 3 year old had not yet developed empathy. Civilised, decent behaviour is learned behaviour. It is a real shame that not all children are taught it.

pingping · 09/10/2008 17:35

The only thing I disagree with on the James Bulger case was the lack of punishment for the two boys that killed him. Yes they served 8 years in youth offenders where they were allowed to go to football games (paid by us the tax payers) have play stations girlfriends Now they are living in other countries and one day will marry have children of there own and the partner is highly unlikely to know who they are and what they did. Think about it like this that is someone DD that could marry one of these boys how would you feel if you found out.

I do think some things stem from a bad childhood I was in care and I watched kids coming and going that were off there heads on drugs and were violent etc I had the same kind of upbringing as them I just dealt with it in a different way so it depends on the person on how you cope with your childhood and if you let it ruin your life.

I do wonder what these boys think now about what they did and I am sure they most likely regret it and feel shame for what they did least I hope they do.

LesAnimaux · 09/10/2008 17:40

soon2be3 - that 3 year old wasn't evil.

My nephew did the same thing to my niece at that age (she was 2) This wasn't the only occation he tried to eliminate her at around this age.

He is now the most increadible kind 20 year old you could imagine, and is very close to his sister.

OP YABU.

Strage to start a thead about a report without linking. And no, I don't want to read the report thanks.

Rhubarb · 09/10/2008 17:42

The word is "psychotic" not evil. 2 different things. You can be psychotic and not be evil.

Original poster
loudandproud · 09/10/2008 17:52

I'm sorry for posting something like this. I was just really pissed off about it.

I realise I was a bit harsh but it's just because I've been doing so much reading about it lately and when I came across this it really annoyed me.

I am sorry to all of you hope you don't think I'm some sort of crazed cow but as I said it's just a very touchy subject I will ask for it to be removed

Apologies again

OP posts:
mrsruffallo · 09/10/2008 18:01

loudandproud-I think you are having a hard time here.
You were obviously disturbed after studying this case and needed to vent.
You already apologised in your OP.
It is a senseless and horrific case

Original poster
loudandproud · 09/10/2008 18:02

Infact before I do can I just explain I am not as much of a cow as I made myself out to sound.

The main thing that annoys me about all of this is the lack of punishment these boys recieved I don't think they should have been released until they were atlast 25 8 years is not long enough to rehabilitate such evil or mental illness or whatever it was that caused these 'children' to do this to James.

I think all child killers regardless of age should be locked up and monitered verfy closely for the rest of their lives but that is just my opinion.

I definately don't agree with protecting them by new identities etc fair enough when they were kids but now they are adults they should deal with the consequences.

Yes my views are harsh but it really did annoy me. My son is 2 and it horrifies me to think ofanything even half as bad as that happening to him as I'm sure everyone else is.

OP posts:
MinkyBorage · 09/10/2008 18:06

You're mad
"I think all child killers regardless of age should be locked up and monitered verfy closely for the rest of their lives but that is just my opinion." you're mad
"My son is 2 and it horrifies me to think ofanything even half as bad as that happening to him " you're mad to think that there is EVER a need to actually say something as bleeding obvious as this!

Why was it you namechanged for this?

OneLieIn · 09/10/2008 18:08

Don't apologise any more loudandproud, I can absolutely see your point. When you have a son that age, it becomes clearer.

I don't believe kids are born evil either, but I do believe that there are genetic dispositions that lead children towards certain behaviours. Couple that with adults around who abuse kids and before you know it, the dye is cast.

I don't think 8 years would normally be long enough, but for a child it is absolutely more than enough.

I ABSOLUTELY don't agree with Rhubarb, if a child is like that at 10, there are still plenty of opportunities given the right environment and carers to sort this behaviour out. If you leave a kid at 10 alone who has behaviour problems, then yes, you probably can tell what they will be like as an adult. However, 10 years old is still young enough to be moulded into a person with great behaviour moving forwards. And sorry Rhubarb, I normally agree with you - but this kind of attitude is absolutely what has led to this fear of teenagers that people have when they are hanging around in streets etc. FFS, get involved and try and help instead of writing every kids off who is naughty at 10.

Original poster
loudandproud · 09/10/2008 18:10

Because I knew it would be a very emotive(?) subject and thought I might egt flamed for it because I know I have very strong and harsh views about this subject some yes admittedly wrong, I know they are.

And as to the above comment I said that because I was trying to explain why I posted what I did, but again sorry if offensive just had to vent now I realise I shouldn't ahve vented here.

OP posts:
Original poster
loudandproud · 09/10/2008 18:12

Thanks alot OnelieIn I'm glad some do see my point as wrongly as I may have put it.

I am not really very good putting thoughts into words without causing offence somehow.

OP posts:
2shoesdrippingwithblood · 09/10/2008 18:45

yanbu
what they did was TERRIBLE JB's poor mother has to live with the knowledge of her poor soons dreadful death.
I have no sympathy with the "boys" who murdered him and never will have.

unaccomplishedfattylegalmummy · 09/10/2008 18:58

I can't understand why everyone is giving LaP a hard time. She's NBU. They certainly should have been punished for much longer, you just know in the next 10 or 20 years they'll both be back in the news for having done something horrific to another child. Who knows maybe they already have I mean how would we know they were given completely new lives.

And the thing about abused children going to be the abusers is just complete and utter bullshit. I'm sorry but it is. You can't do something that sick and then go on to be a nice normal Joe. ESPECIALLY if you are capable of that kind of thing at the age of 10 FGS. I can't believe people think they should be given a second chance.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 19:15

I don't think that someone who is capable of that at such a young age should be allowed out I wouldn't be happy if I found out one of them was living near me or worse that I was in a relationship with them!

Isn't it reported (obviously speculation but quite widely) that one of them is a guy called Sean Walsh and is in jail boasting about what he done to James, I have heard that quite alot and Denise made a statement about it she demanded a DNA to see but they said no as it would be an infringement of his privacy, he apparently strangled his girlfriend when she was heavily pregnant and said that her little girl was evil.

Obviously there is no proof of this but it is a widely known story about him saying he is Robert Thomson, I think it was Thompson anyway.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 09/10/2008 19:24

I made the mistake of reading the details of the Bulger case (in a Sunday newspaper). It was horrific, I hadn't realised at the time the full scale of what they had done to him. I think it's the worst thing I have ever read. Haunts me to this day.

I think I felt the same as your OP for a few days after reading it. Now I just try not to think about it.

MorningTownRide · 09/10/2008 19:31

mamadiva - that sounds like a crock of shit.

they are out, living teir lives as normal peopl - just like Mary Bell.

nooka · 09/10/2008 19:33

I've never understood why it is thought to be so much worse for a child to hurt someone than an adult. Or for a woman rather than a man. This was a terrible act. Full stop no questions asked. But there have been (unfortunately) many cases of adults doing terrible things to children. Frequently their own children, and I don't think that these adults get so much vilification. Indeed I wonder if most people could actually remember the names of anyone in the news in the last year, let alone last 10 years, even though child abuse cases are unfortunately reported on a regular basis.

Children are in general more cruel than adults, mainly because they haven't grown up yet, may not have fully developed their sense of empathy or consequences, and may not yet be able to control their tempers. My son is nine. I certainly hope that by the time he is an adult he will have stopped hitting his sister and have grown out of all the small meanness of childhood. I am sure he will, just as his little sister grew out of her habits of pulling his hair and snatching his toys as she left toddlerdom behind.

I worked with someone who was on the Victoria Climbe inquiry. I have so much respect for her. I could not have done it. Child Protection in a really really difficult field.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 19:38

I have harsh views on this too.

regardless of their age and background what they did was disgusting and they should never be allowed out again.

I look at it from 3 angles.
Firstly, if it had been my child they had done this to, could i ever imagine them out on the streets again, and no i couldn't, not at all.
Secondly, Could i ever feel assured if my dd met and fell in love with one of them. No i couldn't, not at all.
Thirdly, Were it my 10 year old son who took part in this crime would i be able to forgive him. I honestly don't think i could.

For these reasons, i personally think they should never have been released.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 19:41

Yeah I thought it was a load of crap too TBH but I know that thee guy was claiming to be him and Denise did ask for a DNA test because she thought he was sick boasting about it, but he has been in and out of mental institutes so they said he just made it up...

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 19:46

Look at This I'm not convinced but if you click the link on the page and compare the pictures of Robert Thompson and Sean Walsh it does look similair I must admit but they could be anyone really.

thisisyesterday · 09/10/2008 19:46

i agree with the OP actually. I have read far more than I ever wanted to know about James Bulger and what those children did was absolutely horrific.

makes me sick just thinking about some of the things they did to torture him.

at least 2 different psychologists came to the conclusion that they knew what they were doing, and knew right from wrong.
they were cold-blooded and knew exactly what it was they were doing, they even tried to cover it all up.

and they pleaded not guilty.

ffs. and THEY are the ones that get to go free and live their lives like that? it isn't right.
it isn't right at all

artichokes · 09/10/2008 19:50

OP - read the autobiography of the child killer Mary Bell. Its called Cries Unheard and the author (who wrote it with Bell's co-operatio) was Gita Sereny.

Its a fascinating read as Bell tries to fathom why she did what she did and talks about how she developed afterwards.

wahwah · 09/10/2008 20:51

Second Artichokes, it is an upsetting and amazing book and strangely uplifting. Agree with Branflakes too, 'As If' also v.good.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 20:59

That does sound quite good even though it will make me angry for a bit I do enjoy books like that I must admit.

Have just totally outed myself as OP by my language but hey ho might as well didnt get flamed as much as I thought LOL.

I don't know much about the Mary Bell case TBH but would make a fascinating read am sure.

I know they consulted her when they released the two animals that took little James away to see what her experience was like when she left jail and she actually begged to go back at one point but I'm sorry I'm glad these people aren't normal happy people after what they did the least they should do is live a life racked with guilt and fear.