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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be unbelievably annoyed by this twatting report??? May be upsetting!

263 replies

loudandproud · 09/10/2008 16:43

I have been doing some reading up on the James Bulger case recently for a project we have been doing.

It's such a horrid case my heart really does go out to his family and friends.

But whilst trawling the many many stories and articles about it, I have found one that seems to be all in the anuimals who killed hims favour. It seems to be a case of well they were abused so yes thats what abused children do.

NO IT'S NOT! I worked with abused children for a while and never once have I heard any child or anyone working alongside saying they knew a child who had done something anything like this.

That poor child was tortured and left like a piece of meat to be cut in half by a train at 2Years old, but thats okayt becaus ethe killers were abused, I don't think so.

I do apologise if I am offending anyone by saying this but they lost the right to breath the day they did this perhaps they should have been put in a cell with a big tough cell mate see how they like being tortured, terrified and abused by someone who should know better.

ARGH am so sorry but had to vent.

OP posts:
beanieb · 09/10/2008 21:28

Soon2be3 - if the worst you saw was a child pushing another then thank goodness you didn't persue the career. Child protection professionals see a lot worse than that a lot more frequently. The type of behaviour displayed by the two boys towards James Bulger is very rare. This kind of violence (and worse)towards children is more often caused by adults.

Loudandproud - I accept that you posted this in haste and as a gut reaction but to then go on to say that you don't think the killers should have been given new identities and they should face the consequences sounds awfully Daily Mail. People can be rehabilitated and they should not have to serve time and then suffer from the kinds of have-a-go vigellante punnishments some people might dish out if they got the chance.
I don't want to flame anyone but I eed to give an opinion on this.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 21:43

beanieb..... i'm not being antagonistic, just genuinely curious...

If you honestly believe these 2 boys can be rehabilitated then would you have any concerns should one of them turn out to be dating your dd, or might you feel differently?

Genuine question, not argumentative.

beanieb · 09/10/2008 21:49

not taking it antagonisticly

I think, yes, I would have some feelings of trepadation if I found that to be the case, same as I might if a daughter of mine was dating a recovering alcoholic or ex drug user. I suppose my point is that I still believe that a person has a right to anonymity once they have been tried and convicted, specially if they have had years of professional help and specially if their crimes were committed at such a young age.

Maybe I am just a wooly minded individual who puts too much faith in rehabilitation? I just don't think I have a right to know everything about everyone in my neighbourhood.

beanieb · 09/10/2008 21:50

Is antagonisticly even a word?

2shoesdrippingwithblood · 09/10/2008 21:50

my nephew is around the same age as JB would have been now.
he is 17 at college, he has a lovely gf. drives(and drives us all mad) he works with his dad on his days of, visits his nan, has rows with his parents, goes to loads of metal concerts, drinks alcohol, probably swears and has sex.
these are all the things those monsters took away from JB.
do they deserve to live free
NO

pointygravedogger · 09/10/2008 21:51

a project for what?

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 21:56

My worry is that the actual trigger that allows someone to do something so henious to another person is not easy to erase.

A drug user or an alcoholic yes... but the things they did???

If they were rehoused in my area i must admit i wouldn't like it and would want to know. At the end of the day, they are living somewhere. I just hope the group of "professionals" who made the decision to release them are able to sleep in their beds securely. I would bet too, they wouldn't want them living close to their families.

Ronaldinhio · 09/10/2008 21:56

i had to study the same case whilst at university and i was so disturbed by it I can see why there is so much emotion around it and why people are so divided.
i think if you have to study the entire case you will see the entirely premeditated nature of the crime and the very very sickening edges to it that were kept out of the press.
At the time the only way i could reconcile it was by saying it had to be the behaviour of abused and neglected children who "knew no better"
Unfortunately as my life progresses sometimes I still think of that little boy and is terrible death and the premeditation and evil that went into it and i am very uneasy and sad.
I now think 10 is old enough to know better and that abuse or neglect does not develop into this type of behaviour
I feel so sorry for james and his family and wish them and him some peace.

mabanana · 09/10/2008 21:57

I feel sick about all the respectable adults who saw a tiny crying hurt child being dragged down the street by two boys who should have been in school and did NOTHING. I feel angry about that.

beanieb · 09/10/2008 21:59

Well, I don't think the things they did are the kinds of things they would continue doing even if they had not been discovered. At least not to other chidren. I don't know that for sure obviously but I think their young age had a lot to do with what ultimately happened. Though I know nothing. However with all the professional help they have had I think they are even less likely to repeat what they did. If that makes sense.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:04

I am on the other side of that, and i think if they had not been discovered they most certainly would have done it again and again.

Were it my child they had taken in this brutal, henious way i would want them to never feel fresh air on their face again.

10 year olds know right from wrong and this was proved in court by more than one professional who actually interviewed both boys.

my ds is 6 and would know for certain that this was not the way to treat another person.

beanieb · 09/10/2008 22:04

Just wanted to say also that the people who made the decision to release them didn't do it on their own, they would have had a whole team of professionals advising them and providing them with evidence of their suitability for release.

Don't know if you know about this case? here

beanieb · 09/10/2008 22:07

Oh yes, it was proved in court that they know right from wrong (I take your word for it) but they were then imprisoned and rehabilitated to the point that they wre viewed as being suitable for release. The new identities were not given to them to hide them from people but more to protect them from people who might take the law into their own hands.

My basic belief is that where rehabilitation is avaialble all criminals should benefit. I don't agree with the death penalty, I don't think life should mean life in all cases and I do think that people can be turned around.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 22:08

It does make sense Beanieb but I really don't buy into all of that.

Mabanana that makes me sick to the stomach too thinking of all those adults and children who saw and no one actually did anything apparently though 6 out of the 38 are still traumatised and haunted by the fact they did nothing and one man tried to kill himself because everytime he saw a small boy he said it was like seeing James looking up at him again pleading with his eyes

And the tears are coming now.

Ronaldinho I totally agree some of the details that were kept from press are horrid but there was an article that really hit me hard about the pictures.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 09/10/2008 22:09

"i think if you have to study the entire case you will see the entirely premeditated nature of the crime and the very very sickening edges to it that were kept out of the press."

Yes. And for me the killer was that despite everything they did James kept going back to them for help. He trusted them to help him. Awful. The thought of that. I read the article when ds2 was 2 and couldn't get that image out of my mind. That was worse than what they actually did for me.

I don't know about their age. I'm sure their age of course played a factor. They probably didn't fully understand what they were doing. But when I read details on what happened (and I'm sure I don't know all of them, and I absolutely do not want to) I don't know what the answer is. I'm not sure there can ever be proper justice in this sort of case. Because there is nothing that can be done to put it right. I suppose they have to live with it forever. And that seems bad enough.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:12

The article you provided was very interesting and i actually think i've seen the film "heavenly creatures".

Again, i don't want to seem argumentative but what those boys did was more than murder. The things they did to him were the result of 2 very sick boys and i'm just not getting that any amount of help can make that go away.

I do see your point though, just not in this case.

mabanana · 09/10/2008 22:13

it was horrible, horrible, horrible, but wasn't it true that at least one of the boys thought the 'baby' would get better?

beanieb · 09/10/2008 22:14

I don't know what has happened to these two young men, or where they are, or if they have been in trouble. The fact that I don't know suggests to me that they haven't been in any serious trouble. Wouldn't this suggest that their rehabilitation was a success?

HRHSaintMamazon · 09/10/2008 22:14

I have worked with abused children. many do do things that are terrible. maybe not quite as tragic as this case but in a similar manner.

To put it in a black and white very clinicle way, Jamie is dead. no amount of hatred and venom will bring him back.
These 2 boys were very young. they spent a long time in prison where there was a LOT of input put into rehabilitating them.
Prior to them being released i can assure you tehy would have undergone incredible amounts of Psychiatric assesments.
they were deemed by PROFESSIONALS, not just liberal lefty doo gooders or twisted knicker housewives, to be fit for release.

Now this event has already taken tegh life of 1 child. it would be an even bigger tragedy for it to take teh life of 2 more.

mamadiva · 09/10/2008 22:15

Jimjam I think you are so right in a case like this there will never really be justice.

Jammes is gone and nothing can chnage that but surely his life is worth much more than 8 years.

But on the bright side maybe they are haunted everyday to the point they cant live a normal life and maybe the image of james scares the living shit out of them and maybe they are looking over their shoulder every second of every day? Well what can I say I hope thats how life is for them. Maybe one day they will do the decent thing and get rid of themselves.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:16

I don't think if they were ever in serious trouble the government would allow it to be released. Too much of an outcry. The case rocked the world. God forbid what would happen.
For all we know they could both be languishing in prison now under their assumed identities.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 09/10/2008 22:18

"Maybe one day they will do the decent thing and get rid of themselves."

I can't see that that would achieve anything though. I don't imagine it would be any comfort for James' parents.

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:18

HRH.... but in all fairness, the "professionals" do get it wrong. How many times have you heard about a rapist who has been released and done exactly the same and worse?

barnsleybelle · 09/10/2008 22:20

jimjams.... whether this sounds bad or not, if it were my child they had done this to, i would get comfort from knowing their lives were over.

solidgoldskullonastick · 09/10/2008 22:21

All small children are sociopathic to an extent: they have to be taught that other people feel pain, have rights etc. A very large number of small children are cruel to younger siblings, try to kill or otherwise hurt new babies in the family because they don't understand that this is wrong, because they are jealous and angry (especially if a lot of fuss is made of the new baby and the older child is punished for disruptive or demanding behaviour at the same time).
In the Bulger case, the two perpetrators seem to have had very chaotic, violent home lives and never really to have undergone the socialisation process that teaches children not to hurt other people. But another contributing factor here was that no one stopped them or intervened: lots of children get carried away/try to kill siblings or younger children and usually an adult intervenes before any real harm is done.