To get slightly fed up with post's about 'gifted and talented' children

[MrsMertle]

because I think some of them are just an excuse for parents to show off, when what they really want to say is "look at my DC, they are so much cleverer than yours!!"

my dd is not awful thanks, nor is rivens.

MrsMertle I think you've got a bit off a bee in your bonnet this week. On another thread you're slating Jamie Oliver, and on this thread you're having a go at a thread that you don't have to look at.

I thought teachers were all overworked etc and had no spare time on their hands to do anything never mind come on a website and stir things up.

AnElk - I also love your name - it took me right back to my youth

"Having a very bright child does often require the same amount of support and time as having a child with dyslexia."

TBH I agree. but again in all except the very most severe of cases I would see dylexia as a special educational need, just like giftedness. Teaching a dyslexic child basic literacy is nothing like trying to teach my son to be able to communicate in a 4 word sentence (by whatever means) - something I'm still not entirely sure is possible. I've thought about it and I think that's true for even the most very severe cases. I think anyone who saw what we have to go through to try this would agree.

And no, for those who think that children with SN get handed everything on a plate at the expense of those who are gifted- we are the ones trying to give him the opportunity to use a sentence (via typing as we don't think he'll talk) - no-one in the UK would help us with this and there certainly would never be public money spent on it.

Haven't read the threas so apols.....

I would say (a) you don't have to read them and (b) I think its a great thing to build confidence in mothers who maybe need their confidence building up........ but in all honesty, I haven't read any threads so

(OOOOHHHH, G&T, don't mind if I do )

well, i took a little peek and it all seems good to me. When you feel a massive amount of pride in your child there is sometimes nowhere in RL to share that. You can't turn to another mother at school and say you are bursting with pride about blah blah blah. You would be seen as smug and self-righteous.

But why can't you share that here? SHARE SHARE SHARE I say. I'm always pleased to hear happy stuff and it never makes me feel jealous or like a lesser mother.

OK I think I get it now...the G&T register is a new initiative by the govt to cater for the bright kids who are ill served by the dumbing down of the educational system and becoming bored, disenfranchised and unmotivated. They had to do this because standards are slipping year on year as they widen the goal posts for the top grades and access to university.

Oh dear.

I don't work in a school and don't know if education is being dumbed down and goal posts widened for top grades and university entrance. I and many others don't have the access to any form of alternative education.

All I know is that the G&T programme is aimed at the top 10% of bright children. G for gifted not genius. Its not aimed at the top .01% only although I would expect such a child to be on the register. I agree that these children should go into university/management, even the ones from sink schools who may not have thought about this path, especially considering that around 25% of pupils end up in higher education.

At our school it is just a ticking exercise. i.e these 6 children have been identified as having potential in year 7 so they should be the top achievers in year 13 and go on to a good uni (if they want to). There are some extra day trips, depending on the subject, along the way but not much else.

Also the phrase G&T isn't mentioned. It's not something that parents talk about either. It really isn't such a big deal. It's great that mumsnetter have a place where they can discuss it openly, because you cannot in RL.

If it really bothers people don't look at them.

Thanks for clarifying that abouteve

It seems to be unfair to lavish extra money on the 10%. Especially as the needs of most bright children can be acomodated in the classroom with out extra support. It is also so arbitary, that grammar school, comprehensive or even a secondary modern will select the top 10% as gifted and talented.

Children develop at different rates. Many famous geniuses were not early developers. Factors like family wealth and pushy parents deminish over time.

There are probably only a handful of exceptionally gifted children and the money available is just not enough. I would like gifted and talented funding to be limited to children who are shown by an educational pchyologist to have an IQ above 170 and even then only at secondary level.

how awful our kids have it I said
Not Awful kids
Pedant writes
Fgs please read it fully I'm on the same side 2shoes
No one is undermining how difficult it is parenting a child in your situation or rivens or jimjams or trace2 or mine

Bring up an NT child is hard enough
Please let's stop banging heads and bloody support each other!!!!

1 "Needs of the top 10% can be accommodated in the classroom without extra support". Oh yeah? How do you know?

2 The govt is trying to combat the attitude prevalent among some groups of children that to be a high achiever is uncool. We don't want to waste talent if we can avoid it, so the idea is to boost the idea of academic achievement being worthwhile.

3 What have famous geniuses got to do with it? As another poster has said, we are not talking about genius, we are talking about the top 10%.

Please read what I write on these threads. I do think that exceptionally gifted children need extra support. But a 'standard' bright child should be able to have their needs met within a classroom- if they can't the classrooom is probably not meeting the needs of many.

My objection on these threads wrt special needs is when someone says 'oh it's not fair that the kids with SN get so much help' when anyone who has a child with significant (or quite possibly any sort of) SN will be able to tell you that any help their child gets is because they have fought hard, taken on the LEA, learned the law, often paid for it themselvesor provided it themselves and so on and so forth. I'm not saying it should be like that for any child with exceptional needs (whether special or gifted), but that's the reality and I do object to the idea that kids with SN (or SEN) get help handed to them.

I heard Jane McDonald say something recently that was very true. She said "Cream always rises to the top."

I just thought that was very true. If a child is as talented as the parents think they are, they will rise to the top, regardless. If it's just the parents forcing a child to pursue something then they are setting themselves up to fail.

at the philosopher J McD.

I really like Jane McDonald. I think she has a lovely personality

All schools have to find 10% of their pupils with G&T. Some years I have really struggled to name any children who are truely G&T but I have to for OFSTED!

My DS2 has LD. I was worried that he could not read at the end of reception and was told that if he could he would be classed as G&T. I was pretty shocked at this as DD and DD1 could both do this. They were/are both v.bright but G&T? There is a 10 year age gap between DS1 & DS2 so maybe I am just a bit out of date? I still think it reasonable that most kids should be able to read and write at this age.

I got a letter home saying my DS1 was G& T in a few subjects but that was it, nothing else happening like extra resources so whats the point? He is still the stroppy smartarse he has always been (but I love im!)

On balance I think its much easier to be G&T than have LD. Maybe easy is not the best word but I cant think of what other to use (not being G&T myself).

I can understand some parents needing to get online support for their kids but I do think that some parents are just swanking or even (dare I say) using it as an excuse for horrible behaviour, but then you can use LD etc for that as well I suppose.

piffle I apologise, I misread. can I blame it on the fact it was freezing and I am not G&t please>>

I don't think that SN or SEN children get the help they need. It's a battle to get an assessment, it's a battle to get the assesment acknowledged and a battle to get the money for the support that the child needs. The government wanted the top 10% identified because they didn't want the parents of bright children moving them to the private sector because the schools couldn't cater for them. If I remember correctly it started when a parent of a bright child took the government to court (and lost) because he wanted funding for a private school because his daughters state school wasn't supporting her. The governments argument was that the state sector can support each child, regardless of their ability. They needed to show that they were doing this, hence the policy. In practice it is a pile of shit because the top 10% in one school may not be in the top 10% in another. More often than not the little monkey who is disrupting the class is the bright one aswell. It's not just the academic side of caring for a bright child that is a problem, they are often emotionally behind or socially behind where they are expected to be (it's not necessarily true, the emotional/social side isn't as advanced as the academic so does not live up to the expectations put on the child. They are more often than not at the right social/emotional level for their age)so the support they require with this just isn't there.

None of us get a choice in what child we have, whether they have special needs, special educational needs or are highly gifted. It's our lot. I don't have the luxury of ds being at a school where there is funding for the G&T as he is no longer in the state system. It was my choice, he was not being supported emotionally (sp?) and with him being in the top 0.1%, it was hard for the state school he started off in to cater for him. IMO and in my experience the state is trying to get rid of it's one size fits all policy but still has a very long way to go.

ds doesn't sleep by the way so I have spent years getting up 5/6 times a night with him. His brain's so active he's either falling out of bed or rolling around hurting himself so I do know what it's like to have disturbed sleep for many years. It doesn't compare to a child with special needs who has major health problems, I understand that but we all have our problems to deal with. He may not have health problems but I feel the exhaustion which is more mental than physical. At the end of the day we are all on here for support, to learn from people who have been in the same situation and to pass on our experiences to those who are where we have been. I thought this was the whole idea of the site. The G&T part does get alot of shit, as I have said. I bet alot of people would like a bright child but have no idea how exhausting it really is to have a child like this, just as I have no idea how exhausted some of you with SN children are. The term 'gifted and talented' is over used, some parents push their children too far academically and it should only be used to refer to the top 0.1%. The parents of this 0.1% should be given a break though. We did not choose to have children like this.

frumpygrumpy I agree with you.
I only took exception at the sn comparison on this thread.
everyone has the right to be proud of theor child, yet it is hard to say it. I have the same problem at dd's sn school, I can't go "oh isn't it wonderful dd said mum" as there are dc's there who never will(that is just an example) so I go on the sn board and tell everyone there. so I understand the need for a G&T topic.

That was my fault saint. I sincerely appologise for that. I was just trying to show that the parents of G&T children need support too. I'm very sorry that I offended you.

YABU.

DS has SN.life is often difficult and i have to fight with school weekly.

But i know a mother of a girl the same age who is most definitly a genius...not just smart, and absolute genius (and it pains me to say it as it just makes Ds seem so much further behind)
But what her mother has to fight for is just as hard as my fight for DS.

She had to battle to get a statement of SEN. the LEA decided that as she was more than competant she didn't need it. the fact that she could complete an entire terms wortth of work in a day meant that she needed extra lesson's and extra work.
she simply couldn't be taught in a "normal" way.

there are daily issues the same as there are for a child with conventional SN. Of course there is not the medical worries that are often related but i can say right now that her difficulties are just as hard to deal with as DS's

You said that alot better than me HRHSaint. I bow down in awe.