I know I am but I'm going to do it anyway!

[mytetherisending]

DD2 is now 6mths, has been bf on demand mostly and is fully weaned on 3 meals with desserts, juice from a cup and the occasional snack. She is still demanding night feeds which I feel she shouldn't need if she took good feeds at 10 and 230. Instead she faffs with these and wants milk during the night. I have now decided to quit breast feeding as she will not take bottles- so it is all bottles or none iyswim. I hope that being able to see how much she takes during the day and a gentle prod to take more will reduce night feeding. I have dusted off the GF book which I used with dd1 (and who has only had a handful of disturbed nights since 3mths!) in the hope that the routine will get me some modicum of sleep. I am knackered.

I know it is unreasonable to give up bf for the sake of my sleep, however, dd1 is constantly tired (2.9mths) and is behaving awfully because of it. The baby disturbs her sleep every night

I just needed to vent sorry! Grrr to all those people who say babies get their own pattern and start sleeping eventually- I can't wait til 'eventually' happens!

Presumably any HV worth her salt would be a little more open minded than some of the psoters on this thread.

Hopefully, she would recognise that a sleep deprived, PND ravished mother who can barely function through the day would pose more of a threat to her baby than a couple of nights of CC

Greenmonkies... as i have said, i have never left either of my children to cry for longer than 10 mins, and it was for less than a week.. It was only if i knew they were well fed, clean nappy and well winded... If the crying was because they were tired i allowed them to self settle with regular intervals of reassurance.

If it works for you to sleep with your children then go for it. I respect your opinion. That's not for me, and many others. Please don't suggest the way i and my family choose to sleep at night is "unatural".

If my children cry in the night i go to them as i know they need me. I recognise the cry and what it means. This is because i have listened and watched them cry so know the difference.

That is tricky. Our cot only just fitted alongside our bed, we actually had to climb over it to get in the room and we bought the thinnest one you can buy. I try to think of it as cosy but really the bed is pretty encased by wall!

I just personally find it so much easier to have them next to me to deal with in the night rather than going to a different room. They start off in cots and end up in our bed but I realise co-sleeping doesn't work for everybody.

"Please don't suggest the way i and my family choose to sleep at night is "unatural". "

But it is, like it or not, seperate sleeping is unnatural and a very recent lifestyle adjustment.

10 minutes is a very long time to leave a baby to cry. They don't self settle, they give up.

As I said, I'm not getting into the CC thing again, nor the weaning.

But I think the swaddling is a good idea, though possibly not going to work, DS would scream blue murder if he was swaddled now!

So, the room situation. You have three rooms? Are the DD's as far away from each other as possible?
Is it a house? Could either of them sleep downstairs?

How do you know they "give up"?? What exactly does that mean?? Is it an "expert" in a book that has suggested this??

I can tell the difference between an " i'm tired" cry and a "i need you" cry. The latter gets me up the stairs within a minute.

Can't say I agree with your ideas about weaning but I feel your pain with regards to sleeping DS2 is a poor sleeper and frequently wakes for night feeds and he is 7 months now.

I must admit I'm not sure how to tackle it. We have tried the PUPD strategy but tbh I found myself getting really wound up and stressed out by it to the point of almost wanting to scream at ds2 and then after an hour of it not working feeding him anyway.

TBH life in the connor household is a lot less stressfull if I just feed him. I don't think it's got much to do with hunger and I don't think formula would make a difference. DS1 was breastfed and was sleeping 7 til 7 by four months.

Wish I knew the answer.

All about perception, this stuff, isn't it?

And perception can be wildly altered by the parent choosing to see what fits the outcome they desire.

I might write something about it on my blog in fact.

Tori, congrats on bf for six months. I'm convinced that had you ff your DD2 from birth, she would have had a different character from your DD1 (more wakeful? Who knows? Probably - mine were both fully bfed, but my cheerful baby DS1 was a far better sleeper than my cheerful baby DS2 who has never needed much shuteye).

If you do become a HV, I do hope you are able to separate your own practice from the guidelines which are put in place to provide safe, evidence-based advice for all parents, not homespun "well, mine were OK" homilies.

Same here Connor, I get DP to do PUPD if it's not in the night but at 4am it's soooooo much easier to just shove him on the boob, then wake up again half an hour later, realise he is asleep and put him back into his bed.
I'm not worried about long term sleep habits as he goes down awake most nights and I did exactly the same with DS1 who has never had a problem with sleep.

swaddling's good - worked wonders with DS really helped him - but be careful - once they get a bit wriggly and can flap if they fall asleep swaddled sometimes the reflex of arms flapping wakes them again, but I should think she'd be ok at 6 mo.

perhaps a loose swaddle? (also we found it a bugger to break that 'habit' but we did let it go on until DS was about 15 months ish iirc.)

how about swaddling on the boob - would that help iycwim?

Also, Tori, fancy answering the poll on my blog?]

I don't think that persuading your child to go to sleep when they are tired, or settle themselves when they momentarily wake is a "gift". But it is bloody fantastic for everyone else, means that they can be cared for by relatives (great for both planned things and emergencies) and if it prevents the rest of the household from sleep deprivation that is surely a good thing. There is also nothing new about it. My mother looked after us in much the same way (it was just called establishing a routine then, and was widely advocated and followed). She was horrified when my eldest sister used a baby centered approach (then very advocated) and I was certainly influenced to go down the routine methods by seeing how incredibly shattered my sister was when her children were tiny.

But all families are different, and different babies respond to different approaches. Its not about listening to your baby in great distress. Very few parents would do that. Before you try this approach you have to be very familiar with your babies different cries (and there is no way you can avoid ALL crying). Once you can tell that your baby is ready for sleep, is not hungry or in pain or distress then you can use this approach without damaging them irreparably. Ds was not distressed when he went to sleep, but he did make a fuss about it. We listened (and often watched) him self soothe and could see that he followed a set pattern to a good sleep. If we had thought he was distressed we would not have done it, and I am sure no one else would either (except those who are genuinely neglectful).

Glad things are working out for you OP Esp re the engorged breasts - mine blew up like balloons when I stopped bfing.

I used swaddling for mine to start then moved onto half swaddling, then eventually to gro bag..

whatever works for you.

Glad I'm not the only one VS! The problem with trying to do PUPD at 4am is that I am then awake and can't get back to sleep myself.

ME and Dh have a system now in that I do night feeds and dh is undisturbed and then anything from 5.30 am onward dh deals with until 7.30am when he leaves for work and at weekend DH gets up with the boys and I lie in til 8.30/9.00. I'm still tired but it works better than both me and dh being awake at an ungodly hour snapping at each other!

Nooka, can i just say that i have posted about 20 times on this thread and you have summed up exactly what i have been trying to say..

I have wrote so many different things, but what you have said so eloquently is precisely my circumstances.. Thank you..

8:30/9:00 pfft that's not good enough, I expect til at least 10am on the weekends

He does bring me coffee and toast every morning though! but may try upping the lie in by 15 minuntes each week and see if he notices

Hi hunker thanks for the congrats! As a HV you have a job to do. I am a professional and am very capable of separating my personal feelings from that (having had to scrub for terminations while trying to conceive dd1). I do have the ability to see the other side despite people on here not seeing that. I just have my own background and views on parenting that don't match the guidelines. I have actually mellowed incredibly with dd2 from dd1 since chatting on here. DD1 I did cc at 6wks, dd2 may consider it she is 6mths.
dd1 bottle fed from 6wks with no supply due to trying too strict a routine.
dd2 bf for 6mths, slack routines, no structured sleeps.
dd1 in own room from 6wks
dd2 in own room at 3mths due to space. Also dd1 never came into our bed, dd2 was fed lying down and we both fell asleep, dd2 was put back in her cot when I woke up.

So lots of steps in a more gentle direction

I do fundamentally agree with lots of the guidelines but found that the practicalities got in the way.
Having baby in your room for 6mths-had I had space I would have done.
bf for 6mths exclusively- if my baby had only fed every 2-3hrs I wouldn't have weaned early but ended up neglecting dd1 due to constant feeding and her behaviour became diabolic due to lack of attention.
I have adjusted my bottle making practices- do the bottles with just water and add powder as required instead of making the whole bottle up iyswim. in advance.

I think the fact that I can see things from most angles (even if it doesn't suit me personally) would make me a good HV. I can also see where I have made mistakes in judgement, especially regarding breast feeding and would always discourage a mother from using the GF book too early. I think it has a place later on.

VS I am going to look at the blog

VS I am beyond redemption, the deed is done I am however a health professional with good knowledge of the risk and percentage of babies who will develop digestive problems. I weighed up the risks and assessed my dd2s needs. The fact that she became much more happy and settled after introducing solids means that I have no regrets about starting solids early. I have to be clear though that I did not do it quickly, it was baby rice at tea time until 17wks then a bit of stewed pear/apple, carrot, potato and other bland veg until 5mths then meat gradually over 5 weeks. I used baby jar food meals first then moved on to real homemade food iyswim because the percentage is balanced. I now have a dd2 who loves her food and eats family foods. I weaned the same way with dd1 and she eats anything except curries. (which we didn't try to introduce until after 1y).

I think your blog is good. Not every mother is aware of the risks and I agree about the misleading info on bounty packs. I had noticed the things you pointed out.

On the swaddling front, I tried it when dd2 was a baby because dd1 loved it. DD2 hated it! I tried it again about 2 wks ago with dd2 when she was exhausted but wouldn't nap- worked a treat, she stopped fighting herself and went to sleep Bizarre!

Tori, it does worry me you think you're well-informed - your self-awareness is skewy, I fear.

You weaned at 13 weeks - that's really, staggeringly early. Your thread is about how unsettled your DD2 is - I'm not bloody surprised if she's eating three meals a day with desserts and juice from a cup plus some snacks. They're not designed to have this amount of food - truly - milk ought to be the main part of their diet until they're one, however big they are.

I bf at night - all night - with all three, until I'd had enough (at 8 months, 12 months and 23 months respectively) then stopped bf at night. It took three nights with each child to wean them off the night breastfeeds.

I carried on bf during the day as it was no struggle once I was getting a reasonable night's sleep.

Have you considered weaning your dd off the night feeds and then seeing how you feel about bf afterwards?

There's a really good book (sorry - haven't read all the posts here, don't know if it's already been mentioned), that could help you get her sleeping through.

here

Just wanted to add to the comment much earlier in this thread about feeding at night being a 'bad habit' that babies get into.

Feeding at night, even for babies of 6 months, is actually completely logical, normal, healthy baby behaviour. Just because it's inconvenient to adults doesn't make it 'bad', just inconvenient!

Like I said hunker I weaned dd1 at 17wks and she is perfectly fine. By contrast one of my mindees that I had before mat leave has had endless problems with constipation and dietary issues and was weaned at 6mths. Another mindee weaned at 6mths had problems with exceptionally loose stools until she left me at 2.5ys. Depends on the individual child.