I know I am but I'm going to do it anyway!

[mytetherisending]

DD2 is now 6mths, has been bf on demand mostly and is fully weaned on 3 meals with desserts, juice from a cup and the occasional snack. She is still demanding night feeds which I feel she shouldn't need if she took good feeds at 10 and 230. Instead she faffs with these and wants milk during the night. I have now decided to quit breast feeding as she will not take bottles- so it is all bottles or none iyswim. I hope that being able to see how much she takes during the day and a gentle prod to take more will reduce night feeding. I have dusted off the GF book which I used with dd1 (and who has only had a handful of disturbed nights since 3mths!) in the hope that the routine will get me some modicum of sleep. I am knackered.

I know it is unreasonable to give up bf for the sake of my sleep, however, dd1 is constantly tired (2.9mths) and is behaving awfully because of it. The baby disturbs her sleep every night

I just needed to vent sorry! Grrr to all those people who say babies get their own pattern and start sleeping eventually- I can't wait til 'eventually' happens!

Tori, you have a 2yo and a baby. There is NO WAY of knowing how affected they'll be in adult life - I really don't know why anyone takes these risks with another person's future health. I find it very hard to understand people do this for the sake of a possible few weeks' sleep - which often doesn't even happen - as it hasn't in your DD2's case.

"Depends on the individual child"

Yes - some children are robust little critters and thrive despite being weaned too early.

They still would have been better off weaned later.

Hunker I didn't wean early to get more sleep, I weaned early because i couldn't physically feed dd2 enough, 1-11/2 hrly for up to 40 mins. This was from weeks old to 13wks. When I started her on baby rice in the evenings I dropped from 15-10 bf per day. I couldn't cope with it I wish I could be a martyr to the cause but I can't. I said that I would continue feeding at night until 6mths, but if she wouldn't sleep well at that point that I would introduce formula because it takes longer to digest. I haven't had to feed in the night for 2 nights now so it is improving.

People go on experience and mine was that dd1 started to sleep better once she went onto formula. DD2 appears to be following this trend

Have to say I agree with greenMonkies

I will be co-sleeping with my next one

I'm not disagreeing with you. I wish I could have waited but my dds were both really hungry continually. As I have said there were not enough hours in the day to feed dd2 enough milk to make her content.

I agree with Hunker.

DS has just woken up for a feed, he would normally have a dreamfeed about now but because DP is out on the lash I haven't gone to bed yet, ergo no dreamfeed.

I think I have trained DS to have this feed. He used to wake at 1am and 4am, now he wakes at about 10:30/11pm, because I started the dreamfeed.

Thing is, even if he was still waking at 1&4, I personally consider that the risks of what eh could potentially suffer from for the rest of his life outweigh me being tired feeding at 5am.

So, maybe, instead of us all saying 'depends on the individual child' it would be more accurate to say 'I looked at the possibilities and IMO, the best for us, was to risk possible illnesses in adulthood, to do X now'

It's a risk thing, and with everything we do as parents we have to weigh up risks.
To me this one is too scary to bother with but to others it may be less important at the point in their life.

The thing that makes me sad is that it's the parents that have to deal with the lack of sleep but it would be the baby that had to deal with any ishoos in adulthood.

MTS... stop trying to explain yourself to everyone... you are clearly a good mum who is trying to do the best for her family...Some people are too critical and steadfast in their views..

Do what's right for you and good luck.

VS... but the babies have to deal with the lack of sleep too. If i'm awake then that doesn't bother me... it's the fact that baby is awake and not getting the sleep they need.

You seem to think that we talk about sleeping through and self settling to be about ourselves. I'm not really that concerned with the amount of sleep that i get. It's my children i like to see getting quality restful sleep.

BB, if concern for children makes me critical and steadfast, so be it.

Tori, it's not about being a martyr. It's about a very short period of your life to safeguard your child's future health. I know it's too late for you to do anything different, but lots of people read these boards and it would be remiss of me not to post.

They don't need a full nights sleep at 6 months though bb.
A baby's sleep pattern goes in cycles of approx 45 minutes, so every 45 minutes (roughly) they enter a new phase and if over tired can wake fully, if not they will just go back into a deep sleep. There is nothing to say they need to sleep continuously for any longer than 45 minutes(ish) at a time.
All that is said is that between 5&9 months a baby cannot and should not be awake for periods of longer than around 3 hours without having a sleep.
Even sleeping through is misconstrued, a medical definition of sleeping through is 5 hours.

PMSL BB - I'd love to see you try to get DS2 to have any more sleep than he does! A fool's errand, that would be! I'm banking on him being a genius when he's older and making my knackered dotage v comfortable...

Anyway ladies its been a pleasure as always! At least this thread has not outranked my personal best .

Hunker I genuinely agree that waiting is best if you can, I just couldn't. You are right to put across the guidelines because as you say first time mums need to know. Who knows maybe if I had joined MN before dd1 I might have done things differently with both. However, because I have tried and tested my method with dd1 and found it worked I felt it would be wise to do the same again. I will not have any more dc so by the time I train as a HV I will convince myself that the guidelines are the only way

Tori, what did you think was better about baby paper rice as opposed to giving formula milk?

As you said - tongue thrust (although somewhat irrelevant) didnt go until 3 weeks after you started, and she didnt start chewing until a few weeks after that, yes?

If you were struggling with b/feeding, surely it would have been better to top up with formula than to start solids?

Hunker - tis true - knowledge can be dangerous in the wrong hands

Thanks BB

Re the risk thing, I would have to see the figures and look at how the research applied to me before making the sort of balanced judgement you are talking about Hunker. Guidelines are just that. Guidelines, best practice, to be applied in the majority of cases. They are not intended to be applied rigidly, except for those health professionals who should always use them when providing advice. So if you ask a breastfeeding counsellor, a HV, midwife or GP you should indeed be told to breastfeed if possible, for as long as possible, and to hold of on starting any food until six months. Fair enough.

But you also have to recognise that life sometimes gets in the way, and make adjustments accordingly. I had labyrinthitis shortly after dd was born, and could not take any medication because of breastfeeding. After three months I couldn't cope any more because I felt it was dangerous for me to go on without treatment (and as dd would often not stop screaming unless being walked around she ended up doing a lot of screaming whilst I hugged the loo). My GP supported me in this. I think it was a fair risk assessment, and the treatment was very effective. Possibly she will suffer from this in the future. Who knows, I am not going to beat myself up about it. My mother only breastfed my eldest sister. She has the worst health in my family. I doubt that the two are related. Genes are also important factors, as is environment, and for a proper risk assessment you would have to take those into account too. Unfortunately when faced with a screaming baby and under the influence of sleep deprivation I suspect few of us make entirely rational decisions.

Just because this is vaguely relevant I watched a birth programme the other day (one of those bringing home baby types) the mum had just brought home the baby from hospital, where she had successfully breastfed the baby. But at home the baby just would not latch on (she did seem to be holding her a little oddly IMO). After a day they rang the "lactation consultant" (I'm in the US) who after talking to the mum for a couple of minutes told them to start mixed feeding. I thought that was very sad

VVV My dd2 would not take a bottle while she thought bf would be forthcoming, so no hope of topping up with formula, once she had bf she refused a bottle completely after her bf- I would have had to give up bf completely, which due to the obvious benefits with immunity I didn't want to do. Baby rice seemed a better solution than giving up bf at 3mths.

I went to the dentist when she was 3mths and left her with a friend and a bottle of EBM (tommee tippee breast like teat), she screamed and refused the bottle for 45mins until I got back and bf her That is why I am now giving bottles at all feeds, otherwise she won't take them iyswim.

Yes, that's true. B/feeding does protect a babies immune system. However weaning early undoes that by risking exposure of 'foreign' substances (rice etc) to a baby's not-yet-closed gut.

It's so hard though when they wont take a bottle. My DS wouldnt either. It literally drove me around the bend. I do feel for you.

VVV thanks for the empathy BF still has benefits allegedly even after solids are introduced and I would still be passing on my antibodies through the BM. Therefore even though she weaned early she would be less likely to get certain illnesses.

"Allegedly" - the OP has very little faith in breastmilk. Those of us who believe passionately, who find that the overwhelming scientific evidence just confirms what seems obvious, that human milk is designed for human babies, cannot understand how any one else can fall for the most successful marketing strategy of the 20th century.

Having said that, any baby who is bf for 6 months has done a lot better than me and the majority of babies in the UK who benefit from the magic booby juice for far less time.
When I was 6 months old, my mother went on holiday and left me at home with grandmother and a bottle.

Elasticwoman why do you say that when I bf for 6mths?

Surely if I had no 'faith in breastmilk' I would have used bottles from the start. I just couldn't physically fit anymore feeds into a day by 13wks!

I didn't say "no faith" I said "very little faith". Because you used the word allegedly. And also in an earlier post you ascribed a cold your dd caught as from you while bf.

If you really truly believed that nothing could replace breastmilk in your dd's diet, you wouldn't withdraw it, whatever the difficulty or inconvenience to yourself.

But as I say, your dd has had far and away more bm than most babies incuding me and I'm in tolerable condition for my advanced age.

at your advanced age! I also said that I am not a martyr to the bf cause in earlier posts and said I wish I was that way inclined

I was ff and weaned at 12wks and am in perfect health except for said cold and post baby blubber!

I only used the word allegedly to VVV who said that because I weaned early it had basically undone all good work from bf for 6mths. This is obviously not the case because extended bf after weaning onto solids is recommended iyswim.

Why are you laughing at my advanced age when you don't know what it is?

No point in being a martyr to something you don't believe in. You are not being unreasonable and you are proving my point.